Lingering Shadows Part 3 - Campaign Stories

Read for fun, or for ideas in your own campaign!


This story comes from the community-created Share Your Campaign series, where the Eternity TTRPG community shares their games' stories. To see more from this series and others, visit the Share Your Campaign page.


Drogi

 

Drogi leaned into the glass to observe the bird more closely. It came in so fast he didn’t have time to react and dive away as this winged creature broke through the window and tipped both him and his chair back and to the side. Lying on his side, he looked up at the flying ram that toppled him effortlessly. Broken glass covered the floor like a child going overboard with glitter for their art project. His weapons were too far away. His best chance would be to push himself upright and wheel out of the room seeking back-up. This winged woman’s wings flapped intensely, sending short bursts of gust knocking over small objects and sending papers fluttering.

 

He pushed upward as quickly and as powerful as he could muster. His chair landed with a tip to the opposite side almost dropping him again. He was able to turn and get one push in before he felt a jerk backward sending him down again. Two guards entered the room, swords drawn. They surrounded her and swung in unison. One was able to strike a wing, the other had their sword knocked back still in hand. The one who came closest to Drogi reoriented him with one arm. Immediately after, the woman grabbed him from the bottom of his chest plate and lurched him out the bedroom door. The guard on the other side of the room continued to swing, but the wings acted as shields, barely moving with each impact.

 

Drogi was lifted still in the chair. He felt completely vulnerable and defenseless. All he could do was curse and hammer fist at her hands. “Useless,” he thought to himself. He saw Iceliat enter the room baffled. His summon was already attempting to subdue the creature but to no avail. Before his next curse he was tossed out the broken window facing inward. An exposed glass shard sliced his leg and he flew by. The cut went unnoticed by him, but an average man would have felt like being sliced by a glowing, red-hot knife without the soldering that would, at least, close the wound as it melted flesh. Time slowed down and everything was quiet except for the rushing wind. During this moment of weightlessness, he was able to get a look at the woman’s face. “I know you,” he thought to himself. Time caught up and gravity had him facing upward seeing the constellations. He would have been able to name a few, but the impact of the ground left him seeing stars and breathless.

 

His chair bounced away from him as he rolled at an angle to it. The smell of dirt and grass was stained onto him. The wet grass and grit entered his wound, still going unfelt. He started to crawl to his chair. He knew he needed to get back indoors. One arm wasn’t working properly. He could tell it wasn’t broken, but maybe some kind of nerve involvement gave him temporary paralysis. Making it to his chair, he set it upright, sat up with his back to the seat. He readied himself to bump up, but saw the woman from his past diving at him. He reached overhead for the wheels and pulled the entire chair over himself with an exerted grunt. He created a temporary shell and felt the quick strike. Immediately, he felt the chair be lifted from him exposing him to the cool air again. He tried inching backward, but was grabbed by the shoulders, feeling claws dig deep into his pecs and rear traps. He wanted to yell, but he could barely take a breath in for himself. “This can’t be it,” he thought to himself, “not like this.”

 

Fifteen feet in the air now, almost inline with the window he was tossed from, he almost gave in to defeat. He was almost ready to stop fighting back. Every flap of her wings brought them inches higher and her claws deeper. His vision began to fade. Sound was disappearing again. Before fainting, he felt a sudden heat, a jolt, and a sudden whoosh of air.

 

Upon hitting the ground and losing consciousness, Drogi entered a dream or a memory. He wasn’t sure what, but he knew his brain was trying to process and conserve. Inside an open ceiling cave, five members of the Supreme Guard stood distanced away from Drogi and a woman. The cave was unscalable from where they were, and the only way out was the way they came in, a narrow squeeze about an hour away beyond a series of false entries and switch backs. Where they stood was the deepest, visible part of the cave. Moonlight illuminated what would be an arena. In the center was a hole wide enough to fit a small home. Within the hole was the deepest, unseeable part of the cave. Legends say it’s endless, but any one with basic knowledge in geography knew that was impossible. Water cascaded down from above them, creating a sparkling waterfall and misting the air, cooling the temperature by at least ten units. From above, the scene would look like a sky blue eyeball hence its name: the Cerulean Eye Caves.

 

At the lip of the endless hole, stood Drogi and Beatrix. She was a team leader of the Supreme Guard, under the squad leader Garreth, under Platoon Sergeant Eitie, under a slew of well-respected leaders. She was an Empyrean standing a head taller than Drogi, and much more slender and agile. “Under the supervision of my brothers and sisters, I, Beatrix, red team leader, challenge your right to lead by means of combat.” Of course, this isn’t how people talk, but there was tradition to be upheld. Speaking and challenging like this made it seem like both parties were acting under respect and sound of mind. This was how you knew someone was no longer joking with you as a friend, but challenging you as an accuser of poor leadership or morality.

 

“Beatrix, there was nothing to be done. The remains were too mangled to return home with.” Drogi was being challenged under the assumption that the men who died in the Whispering Wood passed because he was following bear tracks and not human. The only other survivor had hung himself, so no one was able to collaborate. The five witnesses were just that, witnesses. They were not there to judge or support. There was tradition that needed to be upheld for situations such as this. Beatrix shouted her challenge once more. “Beatrix, please believe me. Don’t make me do this.”

 

“You did this. You failed them all and will fail the rest of us.” Drogi, bewildered, knew there was no convincing her away from what she convinced herself, so he accepted the challenge. “As the one being challenged, you have the right to choose the weapons to be used.”

 

“I know how this works, Beatrix. You’re not the first to have fallen to me.” She furrowed her brow and spit on the ground. He sighed. “We’ll use short swords.” He felt broken. He felt like what she claimed, like he was failing the guard. Now, one more of his sisters was going to perish.

 

A guard approached them each one at a time presenting a ceremonial blade. It was as long as an average man’s arm from pommel to point. The hilt was wrapped in a leather cordage made from an Aluthean Bull, one of the most aggressive and respected animals. The cross-guard and pommel were made from gold mined in the Islands of Mara. The pommel was molded into a wolf’s head with its mouth open and tongue curled to hold a blood red tassel. The tassel was made of silk spun in the far east part of the continent separated from the west by the Bone and Thorn Desert. The red dye came from Imperian Cherries which could only be grown at high elevations under the care of the monks who know the care routine. The blade itself was made from the swords of every soldier who challenged or was challenged in this fashion. Drogi felt bad about the idea of Beatrix’s personal blade being melted down and having part of it combined with these relics. These swords would be useless in actual combat. The mixture of metals changed the integrity and durability for the worst.

 

Drogi took his sword and flourished a figure eight followed by a forward then backward wrist roll. This was how he would find the blade’s balance. Beatrix, having received her weapon, did a simple mid level side to side slash followed by a pierce. She had one of the most steady hands of any guard he’s ever met. It made for fancy sword work, but resulted in weak strikes. A recoil from Drogi would have her go numb from the reverberation. The guard returned to his spot with the other guards who were holding the other ceremonial weapons: spear, ax, broadsword, and dual daggers.

 

As per custom, the two approached each other with the weapon side arm extended to the rear. With the same free arm and hand, they shook arms by the wrist maintaining eye contact. “Are you sure you want to do this, Beatrix?” She snarled, stepped back three steps, took a side stance creating a smaller profile. Drogi’s eyes began to swell and he felt choked up. He thought to himself, “I don’t want to kill any more.” He took his three steps back, back rolled his sword, took a similar side stance, and pointed his blade at her as if aiming to throw it.

 

A guard of the five slammed his sword against his shield. A second guard joined in for the second in unison. Then a third. At the fifth slam, the fight would commence. The sound of the waterfall vanished. The slams echoed throughout the cave. His breathing, though calm, sounded like being inside of an inhaling whale. Beatrix was shaking with anger. Her dark gray skin was scarred from previous battles and falls. Her hair was shaved on the sides to the skin and the rest pulled back into a braided ponytail. A piece of her left ear was missing from an incident with a particularly violent pet tiger. Had this been a different life, Drogi would have found her beautiful when others would see her as a wrecked masterpiece. The fifth slam echoed.

 

Beatrix charged with battle shout and Drogi waited as if he hadn’t heard the final slam. His eyes grew tired as if they’ve seen this moment play out multiple times before. It had. As she charged, he imagined all the number of soldiers who approached him in the same way. She’s going to do a downward diagonal slash from her right to left, followed by a mid-transverse swing, and an overhead pierce. He knew that because he taught her that when she was still and ensign. Like clockwork, it happened exactly as he had anticipated. Without needing to block, he side stepped to allow the downward slash to skirt past him parallel to his body. He hinged at the waist allowing the side swipe for miss. Then he spun past her and behind her as she performed an overhead pierce. Back exposed, he used the pommel to hit her in the back of the head. In challenges past, this would sometimes knock out a soldier. Beatrix’s consciousness was stubborn, he thought.

 

She performed a clumsy spinning, back hand slash. Drogi ducked. Then, unexpectedly, his chin met her knee. Usually, only the weapon was ever used. No one ever kicked or punched unless they were disarmed. Drogi felt his teeth clack, sending vibrations into his eye sockets. Stumbling back, Drogi readied his sword. Slashes and blocks were exchanged. Pieces of the weakened blade sparked and fell away or bent leaving little valleys. Beatrix was beginning to sweat as most of her effort was put into clean swipes. Drogi was more efficient and knew that these type of swipes led to his ability to telegraph the sword path. She was a good soldier, but she had much to learn about becoming a fighter. “Beatrix, stop this.” Drogi said with a side parry. “You’re tiring out.” Another deflection. “I won’t feel right killing you while you’re kneeling.”

 

She growled, “Then stop talking and fight me!” She attempted a double-handed downward sagittal slash. Drogi leapt back, having her meet the large, wobbling rock he was standing on. She grunted as her blade shattered leaving her with nothing but a handle and a blade in the shape of a pot with a single handle. She fell to her knees, all but defeated. Her eyes never left his. They were dark, almost black. Sweat dripped from her lips, forehead, and chin. Her hair had come undone with all the effort. She dropped what was left of her sword, sat on her heels, back of her hands resting in her lap, and looked up from a sunken ego. “Do it,” she said under her breath. Drogi stepped back to the same level and off to her side. “I said ‘Do it’!”

 

Drogi flourished his sword with another wrist roll and held the blade pointing down into the soft flesh between the clavicle and scapular spine. Her heavy breathing caused the tip of the blade to cut deep enough to bead blood. From here he could pierce down with little to no resistance directly into her lung. Drogi’s voice cracked, “I don’t want to kill you.” He pulled his sword away. “You’re a good fighter and have the potential to lead. The Guard would be amiss without you.” He tapped her on the shoulder with the flat of the blade, stepped back, and turned away. “She’s done,” he shouted to the five. “Take her and-”

 

“You’re weak,” Beatrix said while standing, weakly. “You’re weak and no use to the Guard. More of us would die under than beside you.” With one last attempt, she leapt to him. In one unprepared swing, Drogi slashed twice. The first swing cut through her cheeks, far back enough to cut the tendons holding her jaw in place. The second swing met her in the abdomen, piercing her diaphragm and compromising a lung. There was a quick hiss of escaping air and the sound of gurgling from blood entering the hole. Beatrix’s body fell into Drogi sending him backwards. Her head lay next to his. The sound of her open jaw swinging sounded like two pieces of raw meat being slapped against a board. She was choking on her blood both at the throat and what was entering her pleural cavity. A big inhale shot blood from around her chest and a large exhale resulted in a little sputtered fountain of blood projecting from her semi-exposed esophagus.

 

The two were laying on the floor now. Beatrix had rolled off of Drogi and held her abdomen and parts of her throat to no success. Drogi was on his back laughing. The five guards came down to help him up and complete the battle as tradition dictates. No one touched him. They watched as blood pooled underneath him. He saw and said, “What’s the matter? Have you never seen a man lying in someone else’s blood before? Look at-”. He stopped and sat up. His trunk worked fine, but his legs felt different. Almost like they were floating and falling through the floor all at the same time. A guard pointed to his back showing a broken shard of sword wedged into the base of his spine around belt line level. He reached behind and felt the protrusion. “No. No, this is a temporary thing. We’ll take it out, the swelling will go down, and everything will go back to normal.” He attempted to shift his legs, but failed. He watched his legs lay flaccid on the ground falling to whichever side he leaned. He looked back to Beatrix, still alive but sounding like she was laughing with a sword stuck in her throat. Drogi sat still trying to convince himself everything was going to be ok. “Go on. Finish this so we can all return home and get me to the infirmary.”

 

Leaving the blade in, two guards pulled Drogi to a rock steady enough to support his back. His feet were pulled in into a butterfly position so he would remain balanced. They brought a large shroud colored blue with gold trimmings. They cocooned Beatrix’s body in its entirety and used a brooch with the Supreme Guards emblem to pin it all together. The five knelt semi-circle around her, each placing a hand on her body. Drogi couldn’t hear what they were saying, but he followed along anyway. “Rest now, sister. Your time in hell is done.” This would be said for a total of twenty repetitions before two men lifted her body and dropped her into the dark void. Drogi didn’t stop it. He let tears fall from his eyes. No noise. Just beads of sorrow falling into his lap.

 

 

Iceliat

 

It’s been ten days since Drogi was injured and he remains unconscious. Iceliat’s feet have finally lost the remaining scabs on his feet and had multiple new cross shaped scars on his posterior side. Despite being unsightly, they reminded him of his mortality. He’s been living for hundreds of years and has never been in a situation where his life has been at threat this often. It hasn’t been until now that he truly felt alive. He’s lived long enough to watch others live a full life, having relationships, experience grief and joy, backstab and love one another. He’s witnessed children grow into contributing members of society or peddlers who lurk in the shadows. He’s witnessed how war and politics shape the country. He has witnessed city borders extend beyond quaint townships. Through it all, the only foreseeable thing was that everything was undetermined. People are a bag of variables and their interaction can be as random as a deck of cards shuffled.

 

Regardless of the town he is in, Iceliat would spend an hour or two at the docks. He knew that his shipments were in constant motion and he had a vessel in every known port. He used a countersign only he, his family, and ship captains would know about. He’d approach and the captain would simply state: “These flowers aren’t for sale.” To which he’d respond with: “The sparrow is resting.”

 

It was in times like these, he would get up-to-date news on his family affairs and business transactions. He and his family have been in the slave trading business for two hundred years and have found a working system to maintain the facade of being decent people in the eyes of others. The ships were built to have a trick wall. The walls in the cargo hold were lined with artificial and real flowers. A side business was to have people living on the street sell the flowers for a cut, while the real work was done in the vale of night. Picking certain artificial flowers disengaged the locking mechanism revealing about twenty people sitting on benches side-by-side. There was room for sixty, but his family thought the very least they could do was provide decent commodities before they were traded off.

 

The story Iceliat was told, every year by an elder, was that the Ateri weren’t always around. Their beginning was similar to every other race. Prehistorically, they were humans in tribes living on the opposite side of the continent from the orcs and adjacent to the natural elves. Over time, all the races would centralize toward the Fertile Ocean. The more each race prospered, the more room they took. The more space taken led to less resources being available. That’s when civil unrest began and wars started over food and space. The orcs were brutes and physically the strongest. It would be a mistake to be within arms reach of one. The elves, though easily taken down by force, were quick, nimble, and sneaky. Their relationship with nature allowed them to blend in with the surrounding environment and demonstrate adept animal control. The humans were a middle ground between the other two. They were strong, but only about one-fifth the strength of an orc and three times stronger than an elf. They were cunning and great planners, but could not manipulate or interact with the terrain like the other races. It was a battle that would never truly have a winner. Instead of claiming the Fertile Ocean for themselves, each race would mutually retreat away. In dire times, small groups were allowed to hunt in the surrounding wood, but no one dared making the shores a permanent residence.

 

Through the millenia, all three races created sects within themselves. A tribe of intellectual humans discovered and developed an artifact known as the “Gift of Kings”. Those who believed in a more aggressive approach became the Empyrean. They wanted to protect their own before allowing others to get close enough to harm them, so they always strike first when provoked.Their skin darkened into a grayish blue and became so enamored with control they eventually gained the ability to become a manifestation that is death and foreboding. On the other end of the spectrum, came the Ateri. Rather than seeking control, they strived to evolve with their surrounding environment and allowed nature to do what nature does. They used their wits to thrive with the civilizations surrounding them and remain financially stable so that they’d never be in a state of want again. They entered the slave and servant trade because they knew there was profit to be made in people being lazy and wanting to have power over others. In the beginning, they all had an issue with the morality of the idea of one person owning another. Now, after living hundreds of years and seeing how expendable people are and how little impact their existence had in the world, they became indifferent to ethics. To the Ateri, it was purely business, and this was the only source of income that would never run out. Humans were beneath them in their eyes. If the supply ever becomes too low, Ateri women give birth to human children, so there is always that as a back-up source, and children are worth more as they are much easier to train than a human with unfavorable habits.

 

This was all told to him by an elder. If all true, he wasn’t very proud of his tribe or family’s history. Being in control of someone’s life or fate is not for a mortal to decide. Iceliat thought of his life more as a gift of longevity, not as being invincible. Something Iceliat noticed within his own kind, is that even though they live for centuries, their memory isn’t as sharp as they’d like to think. It’s uncommon for people to recollect memories a week ago, he couldn’t imagine trying to remember two lifetimes ago. For Iceliat, it was best not to try, rather he would focus on the present and plan for the future. Despite knowing the wrongs of true slavery, he also understood the impact it would have on the economy and society if there were to suddenly be nothing but free men. This world is built by prisoners fighting a wealthy man’s war.

 

The ship Iceliat was inspecting was well kept and, for the most part, free of barnacles. Corners were reinforced with metal joinings. The deck, rails, doors, and steps were all coated in a wax to prevent water damage. Worst thing for a ship of this type was to have water enter the openings within the wood as it entered a freezing environment. The ice would expand and make the wood swell and splinter. This happening enough times would result in gaps between slats or nails being loosed away from the frame. Iceliat made sure the product, the people, were being treated well and fed to maintain their health. All buyers were vetted. They were required to provide references and proof that they had the means to care for the servant to continue a relatively humane decency. If it was discovered there was a history of abuse after the sale, the sellers would hire mercenaries to free the servant, kill the master, and provide the servant enough coin to make it two towns over. If a reference was involved, they would also be paid a visit. The mercenaries were normally orcs hired through a series of middlemen, never tracing back to any particular house of an Ateri. Despite the circumstances, these were still people, and all life is sacred.

 

Once everything was proven to be in order, Iceliat and the captain would exchange any news found pertinent to share. Iceliat’s family knew of his actions and dangers, but they accepted that this was his path for the moment. There were no clear motives yet, but he preferred it that way. No one needs to know his business until he decides it’s their business to know.

 

A young, human girl walked by with a large woven slat waterproofed with palm fronds. She was shouting and pricing her wares. She was selling shellfish, oysters, and clams. Iceliat called her over, inspected the delicacies, and paid her a griever for one oyster. She shucked it open for him, finding an asymmetrical pearl held in place by a transparent membrane. “It’s your lucky day, sir,” she said, handing over the shell. He plucked the pearl from its nest, smelled the soft innards, found it pleasing and gulped it down with a slurp. He felt the slimy pocket of salt trace down his throat leaving a cold trail. It made his mouth water. He paid for the entire tray, offering an Esper for the lot. She held the coin like it was a precious stone. Her eyes widened, “S-sir. This is too much,” she said softly, almost sounding as if she were guilty of something.

 

The captain interjected, “Don’t argue when you’re winning,” he said.

 

The girl took a step to turn, then turned back, “My tray, sir?”

 

“You’ll buy a new one,” the captain corrected. The girl nodded and took off before anyone could decide to change their mind. Iceliat shuck an oyster and handed it to the captain, then one for himself. They clinked the shell, indulged, then threw their shell into the water. He told the captain to share the tray with the crew and offer at least two per person hiding. Without questioning the command, the captain grabbed the tray from the barrel it was laid on, walked onto the ship and gave the order to one of his men.

 

Iceliat threw the captain a bag of his loose griever, “Drinks for the crew.” The captain caught the bag underhanded, nodded, and they parted ways. That would be the first and last time they’d meet.

 

Vatra

 

Vatra remained within the estate for the most part. He wanted to be present when Drogi finally woke up. The stitched wound on his leg was healing well and most of the thread had been pulled out. The room where the incident happened was cleaned and the window repaired. Drogi was resting on the bed he hadn’t had a chance to enjoy their first night in town. He was lying under a thin layer of skins and furs. Nightly, his dressings were changed and a new application of salve was given.

 

Vatra would regularly go into town for short periods of time. He carried a bag of griever and offered the children of the street job opportunities. They were his informants in a way. He nicknamed the group his “Silent Snakes”. All they had to do was live as they normally do and listen more intently. People always talked around them and paid them no attention. The ones that hit or insulted the children were the first to be ratted on if they had anything mischievous of note. The children knew better than to lie and create false accusations. The last child to do so went missing, as did the ones who asked about their whereabouts. The seriousness of their job was paramount. Vatra had this system in place for years, so when a child grew to be in their adolescence or adulthood, he would offer them jobs within the household. They were his guards and his servants.

 

The guard who shared that he saw Vatra escaping out the window after the murder of his parents was still on staff and all concerns were addressed without qualm. This guard, Ekern, had known Vatra since before the Silent Snakes were formed. They were close in age and, once, similar in class. When Ekern’s family lost their business from his father dealing in illegal activity. His father went missing not long after. Most likely taken by those he owed money too, but nothing of certainty. Ekern, his mother, and his sister were on the streets for years. His mother eventually passed from malnutrition and his sister from exposure. Ekern was close to death before a child Vatra walked through town with his parents. They were visiting shops his father had invested in and shared business dealings. Vatra, seeing a swaying boy who could have been a sibling, reached into his side bag and threw a half loaf of bread into his lap. Ekern was having trouble maintaining his balance and keeping his eyes open. He may not have noticed the bread. Vatra separated himself from his parents, despite their pleas, and knelt by him. He tore a piece of the bread, poured water over it, and placed it into Ekern’s mouth. He had to push past cracked lips to expose a dry and scaled tongue. The sugars of the bread spread and brought a glimmer of life back into his eyes. He looked up and noticed young Vatra being pulled away by an accompanying guard.

 

There would be days when Vatra would sneak out and visit Ekern. He provided a loaf or apple when he could. Ekern eventually would start to decline believing that he’d be in his family’s debt, but Vatra informed him that they didn’t know, nor would they approve. It was in Vatra’s nature to not care, that is the Empyrean way, but he saw himself in the starving Ekern and something in him clicked. When the boys grew more confident, they would sneak onto the estate and watch the house guards train. Vatra had little interest as he was more of an intellectual and thought distance was the way. Ekern wanted to be directly in the battle. He would say that if he were strong enough when he was younger, he could have saved his dad and his mom and sister wouldn’t have ever died. Ekern didn’t know whether or not he should hate his father. If he was dead, he’d forgive him. If he was alive, he’d probably kill him for never coming back for them. “One day, I’m going to be strong,” Ekern would say daily.

 

“I know,” said Vatra without looking at him. “You’re already one of the strongest people I know.” He didn’t see it, but he knew Ekern’s eyes would swell before he wiped them on his sleeve. Vatra could tell the confirmation and confidence filled him more than any loaf of bread could.

 

As adults, the two were almost inseparable. The Empyrean and the Human. When others saw an elite member of society and his guard, Vatra only saw a brother. In public, everything done, said, and seen was professional. In private, they were the immature kids they were a decade and a half ago. They shoved each other and would throw food at one another. His parents still believed humans to be beneath them, so they knew better than to seem too familiar within each other’s company. Ekern held no resentment. They both knew how real and innocent their relationship was. No amount of projected hate would falter their friendship.

 

The true test came when Vatra’s father, Ild-Nar shared his methods of dealing with his business associates who have been skimming money or forging improper accounts. He was informed that they had been overcharging for tincture and tainting it with Poison of the Drow. Their plan was to sell the mix to a sick person, who would become even more sick, return for a more expensive tonic, and repeat the process until the client is indebted to the shop. The problem became known when someone died at night from a common remedy that typically doesn’t have side effects. A client brought the item to one of Ild-Nar’s personal guards expressing their concern. Ild-Nar being an adept alchemist, could smell something was amiss. Pouring it into a clear container, his eyes were able to pick up a faint separation in the liquids, like oil to water. This was all the proof he needed.

 

Ild-Nar had an extra building on the edge of town. It is small on the outside and unsuspecting. A dried, thatched roofing with a solid wood, stone, and mortar shell. Not many people were interested in a one bed, one bathroom house as many families maintained the multigenerational household lifestyle. As far as anyone would have known, this house was meant to be rented out to travelers. Inside the house there was also nothing to gawk at. A simple living room with two rocking chairs facing a small fireplace with a chimney and a small, round table in between. The bedroom held a single twin bed made of a chipping oak. The mattress was covered with wool and burlap sheets, and held a single straw-filled pillow. A cabinet with three drawers and a single drawer end table took almost too much of the room. The bathroom was simple in nature. It held an elevated waste hole that led to a catch that could be pulled from the outside to be processed and burned.

 

The secret of this house was inside the bedroom and behind the cabinet. There, concealed a hidden door that would only open if the drawers were opened in a certain pattern and depth. A wooden pin would drop exposing a pressure point only reachable by removing a specific knob and using its modified nail to apply the appropriate pressure. The cabinet would then disengage and hinge away from the wall, exposing a spiral staircase to, what Ild-Nar would call, his collection. In here, multiple glass lanterns would need to be lit revealing a wooden, tilting table that was modified to clamp hands and feet down in place. The clamps were made purposely tight to promote numbing the hands and feet, for they were normally the first to be removed. Underneath the head of the table was an open grate that led to the town rudimentary sewer system. This is where the prisoner would be flipped upside down so their blood would drain and keep the rest of the room as clean as possible. On the wall, hung multiple instruments commonly used for farming, carpentry, tailoring, and meal prep. Also, there seemed to be modified versions of the same professional items that looked excessively altered and made to look more menacing for no other reason but to invoke fear.

 

Ild-Nar had his two main guards bring the poisoner down here, stripped him bare, and pinned his arms and legs into place. By the time Ild-Nar had arrived, the man’s hands and feet were swollen and blue. He undressed completely and donned a leather apron, a glass face covering, and leather gloves used for smithing. Before saying a word, he made sure the man was awake. Using a nine inch, rusted skewer, Ild-Nar pierced through the man’s bicep from the inside and out the side. He jolted up in a combination of fear and confusion. Mid-scream a guard would place a wooden dowel into his mouth with a strap to the back of the head. Ild-Nar would share his thoughts. How he felt betrayed and broken-hearted. The man was sweating, crying, and had already felt a warm stream down his leg as he shook. Grabbing a pair of shears, he placed them into the man’s right hand, barely being held with what must’ve felt like a sleeping limb. He told him if he dropped them, he’d cut off his fingers one joint at a time. He then grabbed another pair of sheers and placed them in his left hand, saying that if he closed his eyes he would cut his eyelids off. He then grabbed a blade the size of a hand and balanced it on the man’s head. “This one,” he’d say slowly, “this one's for your family if you decide to pass out on me.”

 

Three days later, there was a tincture shop for sale.

 

Vatra heard this story from his father after multiple pitchers of mead. At first, Vatra didn’t believe a single word, but knew of the shop he spoke of. Husband, wife, daughter, and son were all gone to “migrate east”. When he asked if his mother knew of this, Ild-Nar only got out “She’s the-” before passing out and dropping his final drink for the day.

 

Ekern was the door guard the day this story was told. Like a good soldier he stood at attention, but nothing could stop him from thinking the absolute worst. When his shift was over, he and Vatra met in a local tavern that no longer exists, as it had been sold and renovated to be what is now the Horsehead Inn. They had a permanently reserved table in the shadows beneath the loft. They sat for hours, both hands wrapped around a growler still full. Any time the server tried approaching, Vatra would silently shake his head to approach no further. He could tell Ekern was connecting imaginary dots. They were unsure of Ekern’s original last name, so it was hard to pin down the fact as to whether or not his father worked for Ild-Nar. None-the-less, his family or not, Ekern couldn’t handle the people of this town disappearing under mysterious circumstances and this may have been their fate. Ekern finally looked up to Vatra, eyes red and swollen. “Do you think he did it?” he asked.

 

Vatra’s breathing was constricted. “I can’t say whether or not he killed your father, but he did kill someone’s father, and there is a good chance he killed many others.” Ekern nodded with a kyphotic posture. “That was more than a drunken story.” Ekern continued to nod, sweat, and tear. “Let’s make it through the night. Try to clear our minds. We’ll ask around tomorrow to see if anyone can collaborate. I’ll ask my mother what she knows.” He took a deep breath. “There’s nothing I can do to comfort you, Ekern.” He moved to sit beside him, shoulder to shoulder. “But, I’ll sit here with you, and if you need anything, I’m here.” This broke Ekern sending him slumped over the table, head resting on his forearms. All Vatra could think to do was put an arm around his brother and look into a fire across the room.

 

Silently, Vatra watched flames flicker like knives being juggled.


Author Credit

Sean Kuttner

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Jacob Tegtman Eternity TTRPG Creator

Author - Jacob Tegtman

Dear reader, I hope you enjoyed this article. Tabletop gaming has been a passion of mine since I was 6 years old. I've played just about every game from Dungeons and Dragons to video games like Final Fantasy. These games have inspired me, made me laugh, made me cry, and brought me endless hours of enjoyment.


I started Eternity TTRPG - and the indie tabletop game that goes along with it (Eternity Shop) - to share my love of gaming with others. I believe that in our technology-driven age, tabletop games help bring a sense of magic and community back into our world.


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August 2, 2026
Transcribed content from our recent YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CgZalFW8U8 Transcription [00:00:00] Welcome back to Eternity TTRPG YouTube channel, uh, where I sometimes go over the happenings with Eternity, but I also cover things in the tabletop role-playing world. If you saw our last video, I was talking about the World of Warcraft leaks related to Dungeons and Dragons. Um, Gen Con did happen this weekend, and it turns out that is now confirmed. D&D is having a crossover with World of Warcraft, but this also brings up a lot of ideas that were revealed and what is happening now in the Dungeons and Dragons universe. So with that in mind, let's hop right into it, okay? So as you know, in the last video, I covered the leak with the World of Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons crossover, and that was a leak from Roll20, which obviously is very ingrained with what Dungeons and Dragons is doing, and it ended up being very accurate, um, [00:01:00] being that we are going to get a campaign setting from World of Warcraft. We're gonna be getting all 13 original classes from World of Warcraft, and we're gonna see what happens there. From everything that I saw in my research that I was doing, is that we're gonna be seeing a campaign from the Icecrown Citadel, which is gonna be, you know, Arthas' world, um, Arthas being one of the big world bos- bosses from Wrath of the Lich King. So I think that'll be something really neat to be looking into. I think we're also gonna be getting some minis that are gonna be, um, supportive in that, um, seeing all the classic, you know, Alliance races, Horde races, and all of their classes. So not really what I was necessarily hoping to see because I think they could have done a lot more with it. But I also think it's gonna bring in a lot of people that [00:02:00] are World of Warcraft fans and, you know, really liked the classic feel of Wrath of the Lich King. Um, the other thing that I saw was a miniature for Illidan. So I don't know if we're gonna be getting anything from his time in the World of Warcraft lore. But given that we saw minis for it, I could see something happening there too real quick to interrupt. Eternity TTRPG is releasing a card game battler which emulates combat from the D&D tabletop role-playing genre. Sparks of Eternity: Emanation is fast-paced, easy to learn, and features six classes from your favorite TTRPGs. Each class deck comes with its own set of unique abilities, which everyone plays at the same time, so there's never any downtime at your table. Each turn, everyone's characters levels up, giving players access to even more options. If you're interested in taking a look, we have our pre-sales page live now, packed with details. No payment [00:03:00] info needed. Just let us know if you want an email when the product becomes available. Now, back to your video so with this crossover of D&D into World of Warcraft, it brings up the idea of the Universes Beyond initiative. So I've seen this in Magic: The Gathering. I think they've-- Magic: The Gathering has done this the most, if not the only one that's done it so far, is this, um, crossover of worlds, right? So Magic: The Gathering did a crossover with Final Fantasy, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Spider-Man, and it brought in those crowds as far as the collecting side of it. I think the playing side of it a little bit too, because, you know, you see your classic characters that you like. But Magic: The Gathering did it and now it looks like D&D is doing it. So D&D obviously did it with World of Warcraft, and they're talking about doing it with Star Wars. Um, [00:04:00] so if you're a big Star Wars fan, this is gonna be another way to get into D&D, I guess. Um, what we know about the Star Wars, um, products that are coming to D&D is that details are super limited, but we know that it's focusing on the Rebellion era. So if that is your thing, that is great for you. Um, personally, I'm not a Star Wars fan, but I've watched the movies. I don't feel like I know enough about that universe. Um, so also from D&D, we had the idea that some of the classic settings are returning, like Grayhawk and Dark Sun. Um, once again, I don't know much about D&D because tabletops, uh, were first introduced to me five years ago, mostly through my husband's game, Eternity. So, you know, I read this stuff, but I don't personally know much about it. Um, so you have, like I said, Universes Beyond coming. You have some of these classic settings returning, but you don't really-- [00:05:00] I mean, until we see it, we don't really know what it's gonna be. Um, so with not being able to actually see what's going on and just having this speculation, right, I think it's creating a divide in the community of tabletop of D&D because you have, you know, your fans that are excited to see the crossovers happening with their classic things that they like, like World of Warcraft, Star Wars, right? But then it calls into question of are we running out of ideas? Is the tabletop world running out of ideas or are we just redefining what tabletop is? I was having a conversation, um, just a couple days ago about what tabletop really is and what I see it as. And, you know, I see it as the great idea of imagination. Um, SpongeBob reference there if you didn't get it. But [00:06:00] um, you're just getting to have your imagination blossom as an adult rather than keep it all when you're a kid playing with your, you know, Barbie dolls or race cars or monster trucks, you know? So as an adult with D&D, you're just diving into these other worlds that maybe you wish were real or you wish you could be a part of. But it feels strange because you're an adult, so you call it D&D, and it makes you feel a little bit better, right? Um, but anyway, that's... I just, I think D&D is all about this idea of getting your imagination to roam wild. So if you're gonna be doing that, then let it roam. And if you enjoy it from the World of Warcraft standpoint, Star Wars standpoint, or as I mentioned, the, uh, Avatar: The Last Airbender or Final Fantasy, then let it roll and [00:07:00] let it happen. And if it makes you happy, then great. Um, because I just, I think there are so many things in this world that has already been thought of, but if you get to think about it from your standpoint, then there's more that you get to do. So go be in those worlds and go have fun with it, and we'll see what happens with all of these new releases coming out and what D&D is trying to do for the community. As always, thank you for watching. Um, make sure you drop any questions below, comments, uh, like, subscribe, all that good stuff. Um, let us know what you wanna hear, if you wanna know more opinions, um, and just we'll try to keep it going with all the happenings in the tabletop universe, you know. Have a good one. Bye.
July 28, 2026
Transcribed content from our recent YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3YOVDF4dMs Transcription [00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome back to Eternity TTRPG. It's been a little bit since I've been on with you as, uh... But today we have back Mildred the Monk, who is a friend of the channel. Uh, we had a great conversation last time. I have reviewed Final Fantasy Legends Edition, and you guys really liked it. Those are some of our most viewed videos, and we just wanted to bring you back on today. Thanks for coming on. Excited to talk. Thank you for having me. I enjoy being had So we're gonna be talking a- about a couple different things today, but let's start with, I think, the thing that the most number of people will be interested in who follow your work, at least as of recently as well, but jobs and classes for Final Fantasy Legend Edition. Do you wanna give people, like, a quick intro for those who don't know about this edition? So Legend Edition I started about [00:01:00] five years ago as originally it was an idea that kind of up, that kind of showed up in my head and wouldn't leave. Um, that idea of, um, taking Legend System, which was a three, a D&D 3.5 hack, um, that was part of the Test of Spite Arena Challenge on Giant in the Playground years and years ago, taking its track system that I thought was very interesting and applying the job system to, that's in Final Fantasy to it. That was the, that was a two-part stream that I did, that I did five years ago. had to be two parts because midway through, um, Mother Nature intervened we said, "All right, we'll do part two when, when, when things clear up tomorrow." Oh gosh. And when we-- And after that, the idea wouldn't leave my head, and I started working on it and working on it, [00:02:00] uh, until Legend Edition formed, which very much is its own beast. Um, there's been a few people who've looked at the fact that I use six ability scores and a D20 as a, as a core mechanic and say, "Oh, this is a D&D derivative." Um, it isn't... It's only that if you look at the barest surface, but looking at the surface is also very, um, shallow. I mean, by... I mean, if you're gonna g- if you're gonna go that low, then, um S- than say the Black Hack is a, is no different than playing D&D even though one's a, one's an aim high, one's an aim low. a better example is, and I've brought this up in the past, that'd be like saying Fading Suns is no different from D&D because they both use a D20. Even though Fading Suns is what I, is what I like to call D20 blackjack because it's about aiming high but also [00:03:00] aiming low Like you're trying I think un- you're trying to get under a threshold, but you're trying to get as close to it as you can Gotcha. Sure. I mean, yeah. I mean, people call tissue paper Kleenex, right? Like, that's just kind of, it's like the shorthand so that people know what there's talking about. But when you dive into it, every TTRPG is different, and Mm-hmm. this is the best version of Final Fantasy TTRPGs that's out there. So for players who wanna play Final Fantasy, yeah that was to estab- that was to establish a, that was to address a pet peeve that I had. And I, Oh? this the last time we talked about, but I have covered multiple Final Fantasy TTRPG projects, it Mmhmm games in all but name like Fabula Ult- like Fabula or Aegis, or direct fan projects like The Returners series of projects and the things that spun from them. And a pet [00:04:00] peeve that I had was a lot of them entirely on the SNES era. Now, don't get it wrong, like four, five, and six. A little bit mixed on Mystic Quest, but that's another story. But I know there's whole generations for whom they have more of an attachment to the PS1 era or the PS2 era. There's a whole generation for who- for whom 13 was their entry point. They speak on that as fondly as you or I might speak on six. There's gonna be a whole generation for whom 14, 15, and 16 have been their entry points. And those people, "Just house rule it," didn't sit with me. So I wanted Legend Edition to be a agnostic affair that draws upon the recurring mythos of Final Fantasy. Um, the exact kind of thing that MJ Gallagher has written several books about. [00:05:00] if you don't know, MJ Gallagher has written books on the mythological ties to multiple Final Fantasy entries. done two on seven, one on 16, and he's currently writing one for Tactics. Oh, nice uh, one on Tactics is going into, is going into things that I think even a lot of Tactics fans have overlooked. Things like ear- things like early Gnosticism, the c- the, um, idea of medieval demonology, and a lo- and a lot of, um, a lot of mythos about Be- about the story of Beowulf and story of the Knights Templar Mm-hmm. As well as the church relationships between Eng- between England and France and, of course, the Hundred Years' War. Taktics is a great game. There's a lot packed into it There's a lot packed into it. A lot Yeah especially the more [00:06:00] Shakespearean parts, is directly Matsuno's doing. And I've had a bit of a theory that the Cid in that one, Cidolfus Orlando, meant to be a nod to, um, um, El Cid, AKA El Campeador, the pr- the Prince of Valencia, who is kind of a national hero in Spain Okay. Yeah, I'm not familiar Mm-hmm. Oh. He was somebody who f- who fought on the side both Christians and Muslims during hi- during his time. Oh. Interesting especially in Valencia, kinda has this, kinda has the same heroic figure status that you'd see of a l- a lot of other medieval legends Mm-hmm. Uh, know if that's actually the case, but when I look at the position of that character, um, I can see the parallels[00:07:00] Sure But I wa- but the idea was I wanted something that was just as viable if someone was doing the high f- the, um, fantasy approach like in, um, like in the ori- like in the original or in three, the steam- the steampunk approach like in six, uh, or the futuristic approach like in eight or 13. Sure There's gonna be some house ruling, but minimal house ruling. Um, I've always held the belief that house ruling should be a spice and not the main dish Yeah, I mean, it's nice for people to be able to play the games the way they want to play. I think that's one of the main pillars of TTRPG is giving people the ability to customize, but also enough here that they can take something and work with it as is. [00:08:00] Uh, 'cause I, I don't wanna customize everything. That's why you're buying the game, right? So should we dive in maybe for some examples? Like, you- there's... What, what was it? Is it 56 classes? Jobs, I should say? around com- combining these, combining the ones from the, um, core book and the Ultima expansion, Yeah about jobs and four classes. Four pluses, right? Okay I do have to... Now, a lot of times job and class are interchangeable. In Yeah, I like the way you did this. Go ahead. Yeah things, and this is somewhat of a nod to the, to the delineation of jobs from the old Returners project that started in the mid-'90s. But it comes, it comes down to there are only four classes, and your class is basically a chassis. This is [00:09:00] what determines how well you develop HP and MP, what stats you're gonna be using for physical and magical combat, and how many skills that you have trained. Um, there are four of them. There are four classes as mentioned. Each of them corresponds to one of the original four crystals. Um, corresponds to the earth crystal, which is basically the per- basically everything physical combat is under that. Um, expert is kind of the skill monkey and corresponds with the wind crystal. Mage is self-explanatory and corresponds with the fire crystal, and adept, which is often the in-betweener, corresponds with the water crystal. There are also there are also a dozen or so jobs that are independent. These are jobs that are not associated with any of the four classes because when you're building a character, you're picking three [00:10:00] tracks. one that has fast progression, one that has medium progression, one that has slow progression. Any of the jobs are available. The only rule is at least one of them has to be associated with your class, and each, um, each class has about 11 or so jobs that are associated with it It doesn't have to be the first pick, it just has to be one of them. Oh. For ex- for example, um, the jobs associated with warrior are berserker, dervish, dragoon, fencer, fighter, knight, monk, samurai, sentinel, sniper, and weapon master. Oh. So if you take warrior, you gotta have one of them And this also means that you can't build a character out of nothing but independent jobs Hmm. I see Oh. Independent jobs are, I guess that, I guess I put them in the same category [00:11:00] as, like, prestige classes because they do re- they do re- not in the sense of you need to a bunch of stuff in order to qualify for them like you did with prestige classes back in the day. knows I'm not doing that. I did, I didn't like how some of those prereqs worked. more that th- they, the kit that they have demands a slightly higher system mastery, like a slightly hi- a slightly higher understanding of the way the mechanics work. And within the book, I have a disclaimer say basically saying, "You can pick th- you can pick these as your first character if you want to, but we do not recommend it." I see. Sure Of course, if you do do it and then you complain that it's too hard, don't come crying to me about it because you were given fair warning I love how when we were playing, [00:12:00] um, there are so many options. Mm-hmm. I think the replayability factor is gigantic with this game, 'cause even I hadn't thought about it too until you just mentioned it, but like I could be a warrior and then have the same three classes, but then I could play a different, um... Or, I'm sorry, the same three jobs, right? So I, I could have like a warrior class and then three jobs, change my class to something else with those same three jobs, and my play experience could be s- substantially different just based on my hit points, mana difference, skill difference. Not even to mention... um, weapons Yeah, and, and limit break. So the way that you play even the same three combination of jobs could be completely different. And I mean, not to mention the fact that you already mentioned there are 60, six- like a big, 6- 60 of them, right? So [00:13:00] I mean, it, it's, it was cra- it was... One of the hardest things was choosing what I actually wanted to play. Yeah also love that because it's like if you don't like it, just, you know, next time you create a character just build something different. Like I consider this the better form of analysis paralysis. Like a lot of Yeah, sure is in a game, it's more of wanting to pick a dis- to make a pick that's going to screw you over two or three sessions down, Mm-hmm. uh, or having to pre-plan your idea multiple levels in advance, which just creates false choice, which is also not ideal. Yep it's there are so... Instead, there are so many really good options that you could do that Right. is a good problem to have. That's a great problem to have a lot of the jobs are gonna be very familiar to people who have seen the job system as it's been presented over the years. Mm-hmm.[00:14:00] there are a few that aren't n- there are a few that are from adjacent games like Bravely Default, and there were a few that aren't in any of the video games, but I wanted to fill certain niches or certain motifs that I felt didn't quite fit any of the existing jobs Yeah Oh. And some of them are, the name is there where, where that name has been in past games, but the way it's executed is different to give it its own identity. Oh An example that comes to mind is the Arcanist. Um, I think one of the, one of the, of, one of the cases where Arcanist showed up is in Final Fantasy IV: The After Years. But ultimately it was just a black mage with a couple extra tricks, I Sure. Mm-hmm Then I looked [00:15:00] at the, um, Japanese version of the Arcanist job and it, and the translation for that is basically witch. Um, and I thought, "You know what? Let's build one around curses." So we Yeah, that's cool Um, and since you mentioned limit break, I will touch on that. Yeah conscious choice to not have limit break be some sort of uber attack Yeah I know that those w- I know that those kind of things are a staple Final Fantasy ever since VI. Um, VI technically first introduced it, VII obviously popularized it with a limit break gauge instead of it being a hidden mechanic. But at the end of the day, those are just jumped up versions of attacks, and for a tabletop system where you don't have the flashy effect to give a, Yeah signpost, that's not all that interesting[00:16:00] Not really. Yeah Especially since if I were to do it as a gauge, I would have to calculate out how the rate of gain for that gauge for any potential kind of attack. And to reference Batman Forever, it just raises too many questions Yeah, that's a dark hole of game design for sure. Mm-hmm. It's easy to miss something. You're dealing with a lot of interchanging pieces here with all the different jobs you can combine. I see the problem. Yeah So instead, I took inspiration from the game breaker rule that Fantasy Craft has. Fantasy Craft is one of the games I've listed as inspiration. It's one of... It is my favorite take on the 3.5, um, of the D20 system. I put it even above Pathfinder, that's how much I like Fantasy Craft in terms of sheer volume of flexibility. [00:17:00] But At a certain level, in- classes in Fantasy Craft have what is in turn, what is called by a lot of the homebrew community a game breaker, something that the class can already do just at a hi- just at a higher level. Sure Um, you sort of have something like this in video game form with the two-hour ability that was in Final Fantasy XI, which was this, um, improved version of what that job could already do. You just couldn't, you just could only do it once every two hours. Not once every two hours, it would've had a two-hour cool down. And the approach with this is you can activate a limit break when you're below half health. It lasts until the rest of the encounter, and is essentially an improved version of what that class already does. Uh And the catch is you have four limit breaks, three from your jobs and one from your class[00:18:00] Yeah Each of the... And when you activate one of them, you are locked off for the rest of the encounter from the other four, or from the other three, I should say So to use warriors as example, their limit break is action surge, which lets you make a weapon attack without using your action. You just can only do it once per round. Could you do this to do two attacks in the same round? Yes. You could also do other combinations if you want to as well Oh. You're just getting one weapon attack for free for the rest of the encounter, but some of the other stuff from your, from your job combinations you won't be able to do Uh, and I do wanna, I do want to touch on a moment for, um, the design philosophy we had when it came to feats Because one of the things that I tried my absolute best to avoid when introducing feats was feats that were just number go up[00:19:00] Sure The... There are a couple that are like that, but not in the same, but not exactly. A lot of times it was built on feats are little tricks that you can do to fur- to further personalize the character, and said tricks don't necessarily fit into any one existing Mm-hmm. And I f- I always felt that was the intent with feats when it was introduced in third edition D&D, of little tricks to personalize. somewhere along the l- line, the memo got lost or was put into forms I don't think it was designed for. You know, the whole feat chain problem or the feat tax problem as has been discussed plenty of spaces elsewhere. Um Yeah And to, and to that end, I don't really have a extensive amount of [00:20:00] prerequisites when it comes to feats. of times it's ju- it's just on three feat chains. Usually those ones have some kind of Roman numeral attachment I think a lot of what we're kind of talking about too, back to sort of the d- overall design of things, is that for almost every game out there, there's like ... I don't know if it's just the advent of the internet or now that, you know, all of us who grew up playing games are now adults and we kind of get games more, but there ends up being like the meta builds, right? And so you talk about like D&D and Mm-hmm. there's like this huge problem of like you can't play a rogue anymore in D&D 5.5E 'cause it's just terrible compared to the damage output of so many other classes. Oh, And a lot of people- on rangers. Yeah. Right. Right. And then a lot of people play as if combat or damage per turn or whatever is like the key factor, and if you aren't pumping out damage, then you aren't having [00:21:00] fun, right? But I, I think it's interesting that you've taken this approach with feats where it's like it's about things that you can do for your character. It's about the, the role play and the character building more than just the optimization. But I also think that just the sheer s- way that you've made this game makes it really hard to create any kind of like meta build. Like, maybe if, you know, a hundred thousand people were playing this game every week, there would start to be some patterns emerge, but it seems to me as if you've gone to really great lengths to give every class its own personality, Mm-hmm. I think that y- people would have a very hard time finding anything that's gonna be like super busted basically. It's more about having the fun playing the character you wanna play instead of optimizing every little thing. Yeah. Now, there's a, there's a couple things I can say on that. One,[00:22:00] Sure I will be flat out honest, whether it be in tabletop games, in video games, in war games, in board games, in card games, any kind of game period, loathe meta Me too. Because Me too I am, and I s- I have done my fair share of t- of tournaments, whether it be in, um, card, whether it be in card games. I w- I, I'm not great at it , but I did dabble in tournament scenes in, um, fighting games growing up. Cool I certainly don't do it as, as much these days, but I... But something I did. the reason I hate meta so much is I'm, I grew, I grew up ar- I grew up around a lot of, a lot of freestyle artistry. You know, whether it be Hmm import, the, um, the whole import tuner craze of the early [00:23:00] 2000s, the go- or listening to, listening to early hip hop in the golden age of sampling, j- or just remix culture with, um, music. Or j- or just the idea of freestyling when it came to building, um, stuff with Lego as a little kid. That's awesome. Yeah that idea of expression of building the style that, that fits y- that fits you, not necessarily is the best numbers. And Yeah what really helped hammer this home for me was when I was spending a bit of time revisiting, um, various shooters. And especially re- especially, um, getting an understanding for what the intent of the perk system in, say, early Call of Duty was Mm-hmm Because if you look at the perk list in say Modern Warfare or Mo- or Modern Warfare [00:24:00] 2 or Black Ops or whatnot, it's not about raw numbers. It is about, it is about picking ones that best fit a certain play style that you're trying to go for. Yeah Uh, like for example, somebody who picks scavenger probably gonna be using a light machine gun, because scavenger lets you get more ammo on ammo pickups so that, so you have more bull- you have more bullet per bullet. And if you're using an LMG, you're gonna be eating through that ammo pretty fast Oh. It's not really, it's not really about the numbers per se. And I've s- a similar thing to an extent with some of the unlocks in games like Team Fortress 2, where not picking them for numbers or percentages, you're picking them for a certain style. Uh, like a common build when I would play Pyro in was [00:25:00] having things like the flare gun and the Axtinguisher. The flare gun is a secondary, lets you set people on fire at range. It's just on an arc so it is a little bit tricky to use. And the Axtinguisher auto- always does critical hits if you're hitting somebody while they're on fire. So you can see how they feed into each other. And there were certain combinations that we saw where we thought this could be a particular annoyance or this could be a particular pest in combat, but it was funny so we kept it. one of the early examples of that that we've brought up and that we've brought up plenty of times over the years is somebody doing Arcanist and Fencer. Because Arcanist is all about incubating a curse within themself and then transferring that curse as a debuff to the next person who hits them. Fencer is all about taunting an enemy to force th- to force them in a duel where both sides get bonuses to hitting each other and penalties to [00:26:00] hitting anybody else There's good synergies for sure Mm-hmm. when it comes to the... There's been no end of arguments about game balance. seen, I've seen it talked Sure f- back and forth. I've seen people talk about balancing issues with this game back and forth. A Yeah me to, a lot of the balance arguments puts me to sleep for the same reason the, um, math breakdowns of classes back when I would follow the brilliant GameZologist forums put me to sleep. Even if I did rip off the whole Godzilla thing as a this is what I don't want. But The, but the, To bo- to dial myself back a bit, um We take an, we take a policy called Brawl Minus when it comes to game balance. The attitude being if everyone's potentially broken on all sides of the fence, no one is. So for a bit of context, Brawl [00:27:00] Minus was a response mod, some say a meme mod, to a mod for Smash Brothers Brawl called Brawl Plus. The intent with Brawl Plus was to nerf a lot of the overpowered elements in Brawl. Um, Meta Knight, I'm looking right at you. know what you did. Brawl Minus took the opposite approach of instead of nerfing the overpowered stuff, just make everybody ridiculously overpowered That sounds like a lot of fun Like, like a fully charged warlock punch from Ganondorf in Bro- in Brawl Minus could be a one-hit, um, knockout. And as ridiculous as that is, still the signposting and still the tells that can be punished if someone knows what they're doing. So as, as overpowered as everything is, there is still an internal logic of if you got hit by something like that, you were ignoring the very obvious tells and that, and [00:28:00] you're getting punished for that. Mm-hmm. you know, in the s- in the same way that I remember when I would, when I would play a lot of Halo 2, and a lot of people hated the glitch, um, BXR. And I had defended it because I, because at the time I had said the timing window for it is very specific, and if you don't get it right, you are going to get punished you just left yourself wide open and you can't hit back Yeah. Things that are strong come with a downside or they're projected so it's defendable against it Mm-hmm. And there is the concept in game design called signposting, where this is where you have those very obvious tells about what you should stay away from or what you should be wary about 'cause something's gonna come. Uh, and when you have the, when you have th- when you have that particular signpost and then you [00:29:00] ignore it, then it becomes your own fault, and you gotta deal with the consequences of that. Uh, think of any video game RPG where you've seen where the, where the game is telling you the enemy's preparing for a large attack, then you don't shore up your defenses and you get wiped Oh, it's the, it's the same principle. And I never want... I, be- I remember being so annoyed when I would see certain game developers take combinations that the community had discovered on their own that were, that added to the fun factor of creatively overcoming obstacles and take that away from them. Uh Yeah, it's kind of a lame approach for sure It's not only a lame approach, but I feel like it sends the wrong message. To me, it sends the message of don't bother getting better at the game because we're just gonna take away your tools. Yeah. Don't be creative yeah, [00:30:00] a big example of this would be Mercy hopping exploit that was found early on in Overwatch, where people figured out that with the right timing using Mercy's movement mechanics, they could clear a lot of ground very quickly. About less than a week after that was discovered, it got patched out Sure. Yeah, I, I, uh, it's a tough thing as a game designer too, because I do also feel you have a vision Mm-hmm. how you want the game to be played, and there are just some things where you didn't imagine it being used in a certain way, and it wasn't intended. And if it does become the situation where it's like, now that we know this exists, Mm-hmm. who does wanna play for the optimal meta build now must do this. Yeah That can take away from the fun as well, but I, I think it depends on, like, your priorities as a game designer. Like, is it is it around the fun? Is it around the [00:31:00] creativity? Is it around your original vision? And y- I often find you have to balance all of those things actually, so th- there have been some times where I've taken away toys from other people as well. Um, but yeah Legend Edition, because it's built around being, being a sandbox, having whatever my specific vision is, is not as important. The only time that I've really modified something so that it ta- so to take away certain tools that I f- I felt were, um, stepping over the line is if, is if I felt it was undermining other things. Um, the, the, um, benchmark that I use for this sort of thing is I don't want a knock spell. Um, I was never a big fan of spells like knock or teleport Hmm or oth- other games. I wasn't a fan of knock because I f- because I [00:32:00] felt it completely undermined the presence of having a rogue in the party. Like, Yeah, sure. why have Right all the time rolling to pick a, to pick a lock when you, when the wizard can cast knock and the lock is no longer a problem? Have the wizard be a rogue, yeah And I didn't like spells like teleport 'cause that, 'cause I felt that r- that took away from the narrative control of the Sure GM. Um, especially if you can tel- especially if you can just teleport right to where the dungeon is instead of having to Sure. thing of fi- of trying to find out where it is. Yeah and in the same vein, I also wanted to avoid things like CODZilla. Uh, CODZilla is something that came out of the tier sys- the tier system of effectiveness that the Brilliant Gamesologist forums, um, devised, where somebody re- the COD is short for cleric or druid, and it was a reflection Okay that somebody who [00:33:00] knows what they're doing with either of those classes is an entire party by themself. Yeah and to that end, when it came to designing the jobs, something that I tried to avoid was the idea of a single job being multi-role. Um, Yeah. I was impressed by that really quick as well. You know, when I was reading through the first time, and I mean, every time I go into it, Mm-hmm. it is very crystal clear what each class does. Mm-hmm. it, it, it's so focused that if it was only one... You could only play one class at a time, it may feel a little narrow, but I actually love that because you're mixing. Mm-hmm. think you, you really lasered in on what each job does and what they're about Yeah. Like for, for example, um, I had, I had gotten a bit of pushback over the fact that with the paladin, unlike s- [00:34:00] unlike plenty of the games, I did not give the paladin access to white magic. Um, part of that was had to answer the question, well, what do, what do you do if you have a paladin and white mage as part of your job trio? now Sure. things that would overlap. You're both... Yeah two, I felt pal- I felt the identity of paladin more centered around covering allies and taking the hits for them rather than white magic. Plus, I've never been a fan of, um, of half casters Interesting. Yeah. 'Cause they end up doing both things poorly in most games. Yes. Yeah. Oh Yeah, they're like half people basically. Yeah, the, the big pr- the big problem with, the big problem with it is doing that s- doing that sort of multi-role is gonna run into conflict when y- when class systems in general are about [00:35:00] specialization. Having a generalist in a b- in a game built around specializations has an inherent contradiction. feel like this is Sure why in D&D, um, the ranger has been cursed since the days of AD&D. Yeah, th- there's no identity there. I mean, I, there's no identity, and I, I think that's probably another big thing, right? Like, they, they don't know what they want ranger to be. You're just like a ranged fighter, but then you're not. But the things that you can do, anybody can do. It's not really that interesting. Yeah, I had... The funny thing is the one edition that I'm supposed to hate but I don't because the check bounced actually solved that issue Um, the fourth edition ranger, I don't have that problem with Oh yeah, I actually like fourth edition. Mm-hmm. It's kind of a bum that nobody else did I, I've, I've been a fan of fourth edition since it started out in 2008, and I have routinely taken the piss out of people [00:36:00] who go with that MMO argument, and I basically tell them, have no idea how MMOs actually work if that's your, um, main ar- if that's your main argument." Um, and Especially s-since, um When it comes to, when it comes to the po- when it comes to the power setup, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that, that so many of us had reference index cards And nowadays you can get whole spell decks for casters Sure But I r- but the Ranger in fourth was one of the premier, one of the premier examples of the striker. real problem that it had was one infamous daily power that got, um, errated out that led to the meme of Kenshiro Orcaslayer, because if you hit, you could keep hitting until you missed. Oh. Um It's like [00:37:00] Thunderfury weapon or whatever it's called in WoW. Mm-hmm. The first- Yeah Yeah, and Orcus was one of the big high-level monsters in the, in Wind theory. Manual. Got it somebody who had the l- had the luck of the dice gods on their side could ju- Yep. keep Just one shot it. Yeah. he runs out. So Yep the And becau- because of that I w- I wanted... Now, with a lot of games, they can have multi-role effects with their classes because you're only picking that one class for the most part. Here, the multi-roleness comes from the combination of your class and jobs, also Yeah the fact that there's plenty of characters throughout Final Fantasy that don't quite fit one particular job exclusively Also because jobs changed between iterations. So, I mean, your solution makes a world of sense Yeah, like the, the knight in the original [00:38:00] Final Yeah. Right ultimately a proto-paladin. Right. Yeah. When you mentioned cover, that was the first thing I thought of Yeah, I th- I think the, when people think of the paladin in the classic sense, the first version they're gonna think of is Cecil in IV. Um, and in that s- in, in that same vein, there were s- there were some casting lists that were easy to design for. The hardest one was Blue Magic because, um, Blue Magic goes literally all over the place in every iteration, and when I That's like the point of it, yeah. Yeah a specific thing was important Right Ah. And I will, I will note that, um, with the ones that I took liberties with, those ones still that rule of I need to answer what exa- what exactly its [00:39:00] big, for lack of a better term, gimmick is. Um, now some got r- some were under other names but got renamed because of things I wanted to avoid. Dynamo was Gunner originally, um, meant to be a bit of a nod to the g- to the Gunner dressphere in X-2. Um, Mm-hmm. that and I said I wanted a John Woo-like, um, job. But of the fact that the job system is divorced from required weapons, which was something I wanted to do from the word go, um, I felt that calling it Gunner or calling the sniper, it was originally Archer, would Hmm Yeah from that So I went with names that were a little bit broader in that sense. and the other reason One of the things I'm obviously the most proud of is the weapon system and the fact that it is divorced from your choice [00:40:00] of job. So you could play a bl- you could have Black Mage as part of your combo and use a long sword, um, and still make it work because in addition to that whole not m- not fitting thing, there's If I were to do a standard weapon list that you see in a lot of fantasy games, there are so many weapons within Final Fantasy that don't fit that Yeah. Yeah, there's so many, yeah. Um, whether it the pinwheel for Noah, yeah yeah, the weird pinwheel thing that Rinoa has, Yeah um the, over- the oversized, um, shurikens that Yuffie has, the fact that hair accessories are the weapon of choice for Red XIII. Um, the Plus the, plus, um, I'd, I would, I'd think of certain unorthodox weapons that I would always pick in [00:41:00] other fantasy games. like I was I think I was m- I think once I was, um, like I was playing a character in an Eberron campaign that involved the desert elves, which are an interesting beast in and of themselves. I said, "You know what? It would fit that, it would fit that my character uses a khopesh instead of a long sword." Um- And isn't anything in the rule set for a khopesh, obviously, so we had to make that up Yeah And I've also mentioned that no matter what, there's gonna be some that has some weapon that ha- that has the same cool factor as when people first saw the Buster Sword back in 1997. Mmhmm instead of telling them, "Just house rule it," which is like pushing them off the deep end and saying, "Swim, damn it." Uh, I w- I wanted to, I wanted to provide a framework where people could make those unorthodox weapons[00:42:00] That's awesome instead, instead of just being Sisyphus having to constantly make new and bigger weapon lists. Uh, and again, for example, I, I know that the... There's the, um, common motif of the monk uses unarmed weapons, except when it doesn't. But I remember in the past pitching, "Okay, instead of, instead of using unarm- instead of using just bare hands, um, why, why not use a... why not use something like, say, a rope dart or a, um, sansetsukon?" Uh, a sansetsukon is a three-section staff Hmm. Okay. Yeah And obviously a rope dart is, well, exactly what you think it is. And I have, I have plenty of players who are firearm enthusiasts, much like me, and I know that they would come up with some unorthodox suggestions, [00:43:00] and I'm like, "Go, go right ahead with it." Um, I know one It's awesome who, who was playing this giant character, he said, "I wanna lug, I wanna lug around a m- a slightly miniaturized version of a punt gun." I'm like, "I'll let you do it, but, but you're... But, um, you can only fire it every other round because it's a punt gun. Those things weren't meant to be carried." Like, for context, a punt gun was a type of ridiculously oversized shotgun for m- for commercial duck hunting that was supposed to be mounted on a small boat, a punt They eventually Yeah, players won't do that good at their job Players will do that. They'll try to do the things that they shouldn't be doing. And, We-- I was gonna say we, we have a little bit of time left. I don't mean to cut you off on that thought, but, uh, once you finish that thought, I would love to go through some more of the classes and like just the, the most broken or [00:44:00] insane or fun stuff that people have come up with so far Um, I will note that from a design perspective, I like giving players powerful but unsafe equipment. benchmark for that kind of thing is if you remember the Noisy Cricket from Men in Black, that, Oh yeah, that was... I love that. Yeah. Oh. You know, That's awesome a hell of a lot of damage, but every time you fire the thing, you get sent flying Mm-hmm. Yeah. Why not? oh, this As far as cl- as far as some of the individual class, some of the individual classes and jobs, as far as some of the ideas, um, I remember being really proud of the way, um, fighter turned out. So a lot of times the fighter has the selling point of, "Oh, you can equip any weapon." But most people are gonna pick one way they equip their character and stick to it Yeah And I, I built [00:45:00] the fighter based on Firion's appearance in the Dissidia games, he's carrying around 10 different types of weapons That's awesome using all, and using all of them in his combos. So like, all right, the fight- the fighter is the walking arsenal. The weapon master is the opposite end. Um- Ah There was also the f- there's also, um, I think there's, there's some jobs that I think got slept on, that get slept on by people. Um, one of them that especially comes to mind is the Spiritmaster. Um, Spiritmaster is a def- is a defensive favoring support, um, But their Spiritism ability is, for those, those of, those who have used it properly, um, have caused a lot of salt because it doesn't remove debuffs, it moves them. It moves buffs as well from any Nice to another participant[00:46:00] That's awesome So it's a really great way to screw over the, B-beg that just put a bunch of buffs on th- that just put a few buffs on themselves. You know, you can have the B-beg go, "I'm, I'm conflicting, I'm inflicting paralyze on one of your a- on one of your allies," and somebody who's got Spirit Master can say, no you don't, and congratulations, now you're paralyzed." Sure. Yeah, it's really incredible Mm-hmm. Uh, and the l- something I tried to av- I tried to avoid was giving h- was giving whole new s- there's plenty of, there's plenty of, um, charac- there's plenty of characters and builds that have some sort of sub mechanic, like some sort of resource or the like, which Mmhmm reason I avoided doing the whole limit gauge thing because that'd be one more thing to track. Uh, but I wanted [00:47:00] to avo- I wanted to avoid, um, a setup that might pigeonhole a particular build or a particular, um, job. Um, like for, for example, somebody wants to just slightly dip into magic, you have multiple ways to do it. You could do it through a spell casting enhantment- enhancement from a magic weapon. could do it by get- by getting scrolls and be- because of the way consumables work, you are gonna be able to use that spell for the rest of the in- for the rest of the in- of, um, that adventure until you hit downtime again. But you do have access to it. just... And that can pair very well with something like ma- with something like Magic Knight, which has more in common with the Magus class in Pathfinder than a lot Hmm the traditional ma- a lot of the traditional Magic Knight approaches. Uh, and [00:48:00] it wasn't long before, it wasn't long before that came up that the idea of a caster build out of Outlaw Star came to be. Um, there's... I've s- I have seen pe- I've seen people, um- Go com- go completely s- go completely support based using c- using a combination of general and, um, and squire. So that they, Yeah able to do a lot of attacks, but if they're patient, they're let, they're gonna let their, um, party do a lot of attacks, especially with things like blade work. Um really liked the looks of Squire. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it, in fact. Squire was a hard one to write for because I bet it was couldn't use a lot of the t- I couldn't use the techniques as is for Squire in tactics because it's meant to be your starter. Um, and instead I built it around the idea that it is this, this ultimate [00:49:00] pocket pick. And think... I will note that th- that, um, a lot of the design with the classes and jobs starts to click if you look at them like you would look at positions on a team sport Yeah, I agree with that Because any team sport, whether it be hockey, whether it be, whether it be rugby, whether it be football or other football, you don't really have a jack-of-all-trades position You have several multi-role positions and usually a, a secondary role as a backup for when the play breaks down, and it will. But you don't have somebody who's supposed to be good at everything Oh. And that was, that was how, that was that was a design, uh, goal that I, that I had. Um, I think you hit that. and- Yeah, it, it's fun too. I'll just interject really quick because I think a lot of modern game design is [00:50:00] about being able to do everything, and every class starts to feel the exact same. Mm-hmm. Um, I've even, you know, played a lot of different games out there that are classless and messed around with them myself with my own design in the past, and I find that people tend to gravitate towards the same things. They're like, "I wanna be able to fly and have invisibility and invincibility." And I actually like it a lot more when you're like, "Look, this is what I do, and then everything else I suck at," because it gives specific spotlights for everybody in the party to be able to jump in and do their thing. You're not always good, and that's part of, I think, the fun Mm-hmm. Ah. And for, for me, I wa- I always saw the high skill floor when it came to people really being able to explore the [00:51:00] potential customizations with s- with job design, and also Yeah of that, that sameyness in some of the more freeform ones. And Yeah. Yeah. games, pe- the selling point that people give me is, "Oh, you can build just about anything." The problem is a Not really. And Yeah. one th- And, And, meta builds. to mind yeah. to go for it especially with, um, false choice as I call it, is Shadowrun agree with it. Yeah, yeah, the idea of false choice is a big one, and I think people who aren't game designers often overlook that. But there's a lot of things out there, it's like, "Oh, you have 1,000 choices," but really it's like, yeah, but do you... Like, do you really? No. It's usually only a few things that are, like, the best. And oftentimes too, if you take something, it's either actively bad or it's so much worse than something else that you actually can't choose it, so it's, it's not a real choice [00:52:00] And I think of, um, I think of Sha- I think of Shadowrun where it ends up having a class system while trying to pretend it doesn't Sure. Sure, sure. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, so I un- I understand exactly what you're saying. Mm-hmm. And on, on the other Yeah um, you know, some g- some designers try to build these traps for some reason. Um Yeah To tr- to try and encourage system mastery. But the pro- I've always ha- I've always had an issue when games have the, try to have this hard divide between the people just learning the system and the people who've been at it for years, with not an Yeah pathway from one to the other I agree And whenever I've talked about that, s- some have con- have equate- have equated that to wanting ha- wanting the handheld, [00:53:00] and that's not the case. it's more, it's more about establishing where, where the li- where the lines are. Um, Mm-hmm. and I feel like what I've tried to do with Legend Edition is those lines end up being created organically because instead, instead of looking at character creation of, in the sense of, "Oh, we, we need a bl- we need a black mage for the party, so who's g- who's gonna be that?" It's more about I have a character concept in mind, and I'm using the tool set to try and get as close to that concept as I can It's awesome Uh, and there's nothing wrong with the idea of, oh, you're building a c- you're building a character class first and then going around it. That's how early D&D works, in a sense. Sure it's not something I think is compatible with f- with, um, Final Fantasy as s- as the series progressed[00:54:00] Yeah Because there are plenty of characters, even in games that are explicitly class-leaning, like say, IX, where they end up fit- they end up fitting the niche of multiple jobs instead of just one. Uh, at, say, um, Amarant in Final Fantasy IX I was thinking of him as well He's basically a hybrid between monk and ninja. Or in Final Fantasy X, look at the territory of, um, say Tidus on the, um, lic- on, not on the license grid, in the, um, sphere grid. Mmhmm a lot of it leans into time mage and squire-like effects. Uh And you have that, you have that sort of asterisk where in a lot of class-based games you're picking this one thing and that's it. But a lot of Final Fantasy characters, [00:55:00] you can't really fit them into that one thing And that's not even getting into the idea that some people might wanna go off the beaten path Right? For sure So with wrapping up, I have a couple more things to cover. Um, one class, for example, that I really wanna play some point coming up for a very specific reason is the Oracle, and that reason is because I can self and-- self-damage myself to get myself to a limit break faster. Are there other classes that, that use self-damage for a bonus of some kind so that, you know, somebody wants to, like, limit break as often as possible? So Lim- because limit break is a bu- is a buff, um, and the f- and the fact that between, that you do full heal between encounters, um, trying to, trying to race to limit [00:56:00] break all the time isn't as beneficial as it may sound. Um, I just wanted to try it at least one time And any sort of... There are some ef- there are some effects that, aside from Oracle, that let you do that kind of, um, that kind of risk thing. Um, obviously one of the big examples is gonna be Dark Knight, who Okay when they're using Soul Eater, they can add a die of any size, aside from D20, their d- to their damage. However, whatever that additional die rolled, they ta- they take in direct HP reduction Yeah, I love it Oh In the s- in the same... There's a similar thing that works for, um, paladin when it comes to cover. Or not when it Right when it comes to paladin's oath. They can add that Oh, okay to their defenses, but the next t- but the next time they're targeted with an attack and that [00:57:00] attack is a miss, whatever that bonus they got from that die was, they take in, um, reduction Which I felt the theme of sacrifice that's a, that is key to the paladin identity I think so too. I also like that it's a foil, in a sense, for Dark Knight. There's a lot of threads in these classes that are really fun to pull at when you start getting into it. I can tell a lot of heart and passion has gone into making this. Mm-hmm. So I guess the next question with that, this is probably my last question, or it's like a little series of questions. But have you thought... Because Final Fantasy, like when we played, the story was great, and the adventure was super fun, and everything that you made I really loved. Also, though, Final Fantasy is like often thought of as a very combat-heavy series. Have you thought about [00:58:00] doing some kind of like PVP tournament where it's just like build your biggest, baddest team and fight against people online? And, you know, you've, you have, you have like a tournament series that's, you know, like you schedule once a week to you and your party fight somebody else. Or having that kind of thing, but then like for bosses, where it's like you and your friends build a team, you know, once a week you fight against some mega boss. You're not really intended to win, but, you know, it can be like a little bit of a competition thing for the community sort of thing. Just curious if you thought about these kind of things. I have given them some thought, and the idea of, of, um, PVP I, I would not advise because it really is built with the idea of the party has its own particular set of mechanics and the NPCs and their, Got it have their own particular set of mechanics opposite them. It's... I've, I [00:59:00] remember, I remember going through a bunch of, a bunch of games in the mid-2000s that ha- that did the whole PCs and NPCs are built the same way, and I, I don't wanna do that, um, Sure, sure becau- because it... I feel like it would fall back into that same n- into that sameness that we talked about earlier. Mm-hmm. Mmhmm on the other hand, the i- the idea of competitively going up, going up against a certain boss, um, that I'd be a, that'd be a little bit more willing to go with. Um, it would certainly, it would certainly fit alongside some of the um, style video games that we, that we've seen over the last few years, stuff like, um, stuff like Dead by Daylight or the Friday the 13th game, for example. Or even the battle mode, uh, multiplayer entry that was in Doom Eternal. [01:00:00] Uh This i- this idea of asynchronous play. And the approach that I'd probably do is not a, "Oh, this is a, this is a, um, this is a near impossible bo- because I don't wanna revisit the trauma that people have had to deal with with certain hidden bosses in RPGs, Sure. every Tri-Ace game I've ever played. Or the, um... Are you familiar with, are you familiar with the infamy that was Absolute Virtue in Final Fantasy XI? No. No, I'm not familiar on record as one of the mo- as one of the hardest raid bosses of all time. Uh, like, it, it's just a long, long slog. Got it. I mean, that's no fun either. Yeah of course when people figured out how to beat, how to do exploits to beat it, they're like, "All right, we're gonna make him even harder." Got it. I have a special level of [01:01:00] hatred towards, Ozma as a hidden boss, mostly because he cheats. that's not Yep that's not me exaggerating. There's parts in his AI where you can completely jump his, um, ATB gauge depending I see. which is Yeah, I'm not surprised. why I Yeah the same way AI in, um, some RTS campaigns cheat Sure In, mostly in the they have unlimited resources and you don't kind of way Yeah, that's a pretty big cheat Oh. But what I'd prob- what I'd probably end up d- what I'd probably end up doing is some sort of, some sort of raid boss like enc- like encounter where beat, where, um, it's not just be- it's not just about beating the opponent, but also beating the opponent, surviving, and d- doing certain additional challenges Yeah[01:02:00] There's, I like there lot. Um, Yeah obvious- so think, think less of a raid boss in WoW and think more of, um, say a mission in Monster Hunter Yep, I'm tracking Oh. And 'cause I f- 'cause I f- I feel like doing a, doing a PVP thing is something that doesn't... It, it's certainly there in PVP. It has been in FF XI and XIV. But I feel like getting the coliseum part of the identity, you know, the coliseum mini-game that's been in multiple games, uh, the way to go about that would be to would be, would be to do something beyond just PVP, whether it be escalating monster types or, um, something that I just came up on the fly, a wager [01:03:00] system like you see in some ARPGs, where you can intentionally nerf yourself to potentially get better loot Yeah, yeah. It just comes to mind, I, and I think maybe you're totally right about this too, I mean, PVP can kinda be a feel bad thing sometimes as well. Mm-hmm. Whereas if you are even loosely competing against somebody, or maybe not even competing, but just, you know, competing against yourself to try and do X, Y, Z thing, fighting, like, a boss. I personally like competition a little bit, so maybe that could be fun. But, um, yeah, I hope you try something like that, 'cause I would, I would be in for it. I could get, I could get three other guys together, to be and we would, you yeah. see me build a s- build a separate, um, say c- say card game or s- or skirmish war Sure lean in- to lean into that instead Sure, sure Um, 'cause I feel like that would be- that would better f- fit that since [01:04:00] obviously I, even in those ca- even in, um, something like that, I still don't wanna have to deal with meta. I, Sure if you, I want, I would want to, um, I would wanna have it le- less akin to the flag or team deathmatch, and more akin to, like, big team battle in H- in Halo, for example. Sure a way, a way to experiment with the sa- with the sandb- with given sandbox, but not necessarily building it arou- around one, around one particular meta. Yeah. as I get it as- a bit of an aside, there wa- there was a incident at a, um, Yu-Gi-Oh tournament years ago where somebody in with a random ass deck and completely embarrassed everybody, and it was his first tournament. Because Oh, that's awesome. for, they were all planning for this very, very specific meta at that [01:05:00] tournament, and he wasn't playing that, so they ha- so they were basically coming in completely blind and had , and had no I love that no strategy at first to prepare for, and only got one as they adapted ov- over the, over subsequent rounds. Mm-hmm Um, it's ... Imagine, imagine a football coach spending hours watching film, only to realize he's watching film for the wrong team he's playing against Yeah, totally Oh. And I've I think that kind of thing's hilarious. I love that. yeah, I've always appreciated, um, I've always appreciated people pulling dumb stuff in games I agree. Yeah, I think it's part of the creativity and the fun and that, that's what we're talking about, right? Like, that's-- it's a role-playing game, so you can role play a character you want, not to optimize. But, Yeah um, yeah, I th- I guess we should probably wrap up here, Mm-hmm.[01:06:00] but I feel like we'll have more conversations coming up in the future. Is there anything else you want to wrap up with? Um, Or final things you wanna say, I, I should say? I will note that while it is gonna be a slow process, I am in the early stages of writing world books for Legend Edition. Cool. Um, Good to know been working on a, in a, um, not necessarily a default campaign setting, but a potential campaign setting, um, that I've codenamed Project Gaia. Um, which is do- is doing th- is doing a bit of, um, of steam pu- of steampunk with magic. It was my answer to the question of the magic versus technology motif that's often in steampunk and other speculative fiction. The answer I give is and technology are two sides of the same whole and feed into each other So, Well, that's great. mm-hmm Yeah, I'm [01:07:00] looking forward to that Oh yeah And, Well, thank you so much for coming on today then, Mildreth. It's always a pleasure. Oh, yeah I hope everybody, if you haven't tried out Legends Edition yet, you really need to. Um, I'll make sure to include a link. It is a free download for anybody who's been listening in and, you know, doesn't know anything about the project yet. Uh, it's a great game. I think you should take a look, find what class and jobs you wanna try, and, uh, yeah, let us know what you're having the most fun with with your group Mm-hmm. Oh otherwise, we will catch everybody later then Stay frosty Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's funny you said w- um, 45 minutes. We ended up going an hour and seven. Uh
July 24, 2026
Transcribed content from our recent YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RnO-Se1ols Transcription [00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome back to Eternity TTRPG. It's been a little bit since I've been on with you as, uh... But today we have back Mildred the Monk, who is a friend of the channel. Uh, we had a great conversation last time. I have reviewed Final Fantasy Legends Edition, and you guys really liked it. Those are some of our most viewed videos, and we just wanted to bring you back on today. Thanks for coming on. Excited to talk. Thank you for having me. I enjoy being had So we're gonna be talking a- about a couple different things today, but let's start with, I think, the thing that the most number of people will be interested in who follow your work, at least as of recently as well, but jobs and classes for Final Fantasy Legend Edition. Do you wanna give people, like, a quick intro for those who don't know about this edition? So Legend Edition I started about [00:01:00] five years ago as originally it was an idea that kind of up, that kind of showed up in my head and wouldn't leave. Um, that idea of, um, taking Legend System, which was a three, a D&D 3.5 hack, um, that was part of the Test of Spite Arena Challenge on Giant in the Playground years and years ago, taking its track system that I thought was very interesting and applying the job system to, that's in Final Fantasy to it. That was the, that was a two-part stream that I did, that I did five years ago. had to be two parts because midway through, um, Mother Nature intervened we said, "All right, we'll do part two when, when, when things clear up tomorrow." Oh gosh. And when we-- And after that, the idea wouldn't leave my head, and I started working on it and working on it, [00:02:00] uh, until Legend Edition formed, which very much is its own beast. Um, there's been a few people who've looked at the fact that I use six ability scores and a D20 as a, as a core mechanic and say, "Oh, this is a D&D derivative." Um, it isn't... It's only that if you look at the barest surface, but looking at the surface is also very, um, shallow. I mean, by... I mean, if you're gonna g- if you're gonna go that low, then, um S- than say the Black Hack is a, is no different than playing D&D even though one's a, one's an aim high, one's an aim low. a better example is, and I've brought this up in the past, that'd be like saying Fading Suns is no different from D&D because they both use a D20. Even though Fading Suns is what I, is what I like to call D20 blackjack because it's about aiming high but also [00:03:00] aiming low Like you're trying I think un- you're trying to get under a threshold, but you're trying to get as close to it as you can Gotcha. Sure. I mean, yeah. I mean, people call tissue paper Kleenex, right? Like, that's just kind of, it's like the shorthand so that people know what there's talking about. But when you dive into it, every TTRPG is different, and Mm-hmm. this is the best version of Final Fantasy TTRPGs that's out there. So for players who wanna play Final Fantasy, yeah that was to estab- that was to establish a, that was to address a pet peeve that I had. And I, Oh? this the last time we talked about, but I have covered multiple Final Fantasy TTRPG projects, it Mmhmm games in all but name like Fabula Ult- like Fabula or Aegis, or direct fan projects like The Returners series of projects and the things that spun from them. And a pet [00:04:00] peeve that I had was a lot of them entirely on the SNES era. Now, don't get it wrong, like four, five, and six. A little bit mixed on Mystic Quest, but that's another story. But I know there's whole generations for whom they have more of an attachment to the PS1 era or the PS2 era. There's a whole generation for who- for whom 13 was their entry point. They speak on that as fondly as you or I might speak on six. There's gonna be a whole generation for whom 14, 15, and 16 have been their entry points. And those people, "Just house rule it," didn't sit with me. So I wanted Legend Edition to be a agnostic affair that draws upon the recurring mythos of Final Fantasy. Um, the exact kind of thing that MJ Gallagher has written several books about. [00:05:00] if you don't know, MJ Gallagher has written books on the mythological ties to multiple Final Fantasy entries. done two on seven, one on 16, and he's currently writing one for Tactics. Oh, nice uh, one on Tactics is going into, is going into things that I think even a lot of Tactics fans have overlooked. Things like ear- things like early Gnosticism, the c- the, um, idea of medieval demonology, and a lo- and a lot of, um, a lot of mythos about Be- about the story of Beowulf and story of the Knights Templar Mm-hmm. As well as the church relationships between Eng- between England and France and, of course, the Hundred Years' War. Taktics is a great game. There's a lot packed into it There's a lot packed into it. A lot Yeah especially the more [00:06:00] Shakespearean parts, is directly Matsuno's doing. And I've had a bit of a theory that the Cid in that one, Cidolfus Orlando, meant to be a nod to, um, um, El Cid, AKA El Campeador, the pr- the Prince of Valencia, who is kind of a national hero in Spain Okay. Yeah, I'm not familiar Mm-hmm. Oh. He was somebody who f- who fought on the side both Christians and Muslims during hi- during his time. Oh. Interesting especially in Valencia, kinda has this, kinda has the same heroic figure status that you'd see of a l- a lot of other medieval legends Mm-hmm. Uh, know if that's actually the case, but when I look at the position of that character, um, I can see the parallels[00:07:00] Sure But I wa- but the idea was I wanted something that was just as viable if someone was doing the high f- the, um, fantasy approach like in, um, like in the ori- like in the original or in three, the steam- the steampunk approach like in six, uh, or the futuristic approach like in eight or 13. Sure There's gonna be some house ruling, but minimal house ruling. Um, I've always held the belief that house ruling should be a spice and not the main dish Yeah, I mean, it's nice for people to be able to play the games the way they want to play. I think that's one of the main pillars of TTRPG is giving people the ability to customize, but also enough here that they can take something and work with it as is. [00:08:00] Uh, 'cause I, I don't wanna customize everything. That's why you're buying the game, right? So should we dive in maybe for some examples? Like, you- there's... What, what was it? Is it 56 classes? Jobs, I should say? around com- combining these, combining the ones from the, um, core book and the Ultima expansion, Yeah about jobs and four classes. Four pluses, right? Okay I do have to... Now, a lot of times job and class are interchangeable. In Yeah, I like the way you did this. Go ahead. Yeah things, and this is somewhat of a nod to the, to the delineation of jobs from the old Returners project that started in the mid-'90s. But it comes, it comes down to there are only four classes, and your class is basically a chassis. This is [00:09:00] what determines how well you develop HP and MP, what stats you're gonna be using for physical and magical combat, and how many skills that you have trained. Um, there are four of them. There are four classes as mentioned. Each of them corresponds to one of the original four crystals. Um, corresponds to the earth crystal, which is basically the per- basically everything physical combat is under that. Um, expert is kind of the skill monkey and corresponds with the wind crystal. Mage is self-explanatory and corresponds with the fire crystal, and adept, which is often the in-betweener, corresponds with the water crystal. There are also there are also a dozen or so jobs that are independent. These are jobs that are not associated with any of the four classes because when you're building a character, you're picking three [00:10:00] tracks. one that has fast progression, one that has medium progression, one that has slow progression. Any of the jobs are available. The only rule is at least one of them has to be associated with your class, and each, um, each class has about 11 or so jobs that are associated with it It doesn't have to be the first pick, it just has to be one of them. Oh. For ex- for example, um, the jobs associated with warrior are berserker, dervish, dragoon, fencer, fighter, knight, monk, samurai, sentinel, sniper, and weapon master. Oh. So if you take warrior, you gotta have one of them And this also means that you can't build a character out of nothing but independent jobs Hmm. I see Oh. Independent jobs are, I guess that, I guess I put them in the same category [00:11:00] as, like, prestige classes because they do re- they do re- not in the sense of you need to a bunch of stuff in order to qualify for them like you did with prestige classes back in the day. knows I'm not doing that. I did, I didn't like how some of those prereqs worked. more that th- they, the kit that they have demands a slightly higher system mastery, like a slightly hi- a slightly higher understanding of the way the mechanics work. And within the book, I have a disclaimer say basically saying, "You can pick th- you can pick these as your first character if you want to, but we do not recommend it." I see. Sure Of course, if you do do it and then you complain that it's too hard, don't come crying to me about it because you were given fair warning I love how when we were playing, [00:12:00] um, there are so many options. Mm-hmm. I think the replayability factor is gigantic with this game, 'cause even I hadn't thought about it too until you just mentioned it, but like I could be a warrior and then have the same three classes, but then I could play a different, um... Or, I'm sorry, the same three jobs, right? So I, I could have like a warrior class and then three jobs, change my class to something else with those same three jobs, and my play experience could be s- substantially different just based on my hit points, mana difference, skill difference. Not even to mention... um, weapons Yeah, and, and limit break. So the way that you play even the same three combination of jobs could be completely different. And I mean, not to mention the fact that you already mentioned there are 60, six- like a big, 6- 60 of them, right? So [00:13:00] I mean, it, it's, it was cra- it was... One of the hardest things was choosing what I actually wanted to play. Yeah also love that because it's like if you don't like it, just, you know, next time you create a character just build something different. Like I consider this the better form of analysis paralysis. Like a lot of Yeah, sure is in a game, it's more of wanting to pick a dis- to make a pick that's going to screw you over two or three sessions down, Mm-hmm. uh, or having to pre-plan your idea multiple levels in advance, which just creates false choice, which is also not ideal. Yep it's there are so... Instead, there are so many really good options that you could do that Right. is a good problem to have. That's a great problem to have a lot of the jobs are gonna be very familiar to people who have seen the job system as it's been presented over the years. Mm-hmm.[00:14:00] there are a few that aren't n- there are a few that are from adjacent games like Bravely Default, and there were a few that aren't in any of the video games, but I wanted to fill certain niches or certain motifs that I felt didn't quite fit any of the existing jobs Yeah Oh. And some of them are, the name is there where, where that name has been in past games, but the way it's executed is different to give it its own identity. Oh An example that comes to mind is the Arcanist. Um, I think one of the, one of the, of, one of the cases where Arcanist showed up is in Final Fantasy IV: The After Years. But ultimately it was just a black mage with a couple extra tricks, I Sure. Mm-hmm Then I looked [00:15:00] at the, um, Japanese version of the Arcanist job and it, and the translation for that is basically witch. Um, and I thought, "You know what? Let's build one around curses." So we Yeah, that's cool Um, and since you mentioned limit break, I will touch on that. Yeah conscious choice to not have limit break be some sort of uber attack Yeah I know that those w- I know that those kind of things are a staple Final Fantasy ever since VI. Um, VI technically first introduced it, VII obviously popularized it with a limit break gauge instead of it being a hidden mechanic. But at the end of the day, those are just jumped up versions of attacks, and for a tabletop system where you don't have the flashy effect to give a, Yeah signpost, that's not all that interesting[00:16:00] Not really. Yeah Especially since if I were to do it as a gauge, I would have to calculate out how the rate of gain for that gauge for any potential kind of attack. And to reference Batman Forever, it just raises too many questions Yeah, that's a dark hole of game design for sure. Mm-hmm. It's easy to miss something. You're dealing with a lot of interchanging pieces here with all the different jobs you can combine. I see the problem. Yeah So instead, I took inspiration from the game breaker rule that Fantasy Craft has. Fantasy Craft is one of the games I've listed as inspiration. It's one of... It is my favorite take on the 3.5, um, of the D20 system. I put it even above Pathfinder, that's how much I like Fantasy Craft in terms of sheer volume of flexibility. [00:17:00] But At a certain level, in- classes in Fantasy Craft have what is in turn, what is called by a lot of the homebrew community a game breaker, something that the class can already do just at a hi- just at a higher level. Sure Um, you sort of have something like this in video game form with the two-hour ability that was in Final Fantasy XI, which was this, um, improved version of what that job could already do. You just couldn't, you just could only do it once every two hours. Not once every two hours, it would've had a two-hour cool down. And the approach with this is you can activate a limit break when you're below half health. It lasts until the rest of the encounter, and is essentially an improved version of what that class already does. Uh And the catch is you have four limit breaks, three from your jobs and one from your class[00:18:00] Yeah Each of the... And when you activate one of them, you are locked off for the rest of the encounter from the other four, or from the other three, I should say So to use warriors as example, their limit break is action surge, which lets you make a weapon attack without using your action. You just can only do it once per round. Could you do this to do two attacks in the same round? Yes. You could also do other combinations if you want to as well Oh. You're just getting one weapon attack for free for the rest of the encounter, but some of the other stuff from your, from your job combinations you won't be able to do Uh, and I do wanna, I do want to touch on a moment for, um, the design philosophy we had when it came to feats Because one of the things that I tried my absolute best to avoid when introducing feats was feats that were just number go up[00:19:00] Sure The... There are a couple that are like that, but not in the same, but not exactly. A lot of times it was built on feats are little tricks that you can do to fur- to further personalize the character, and said tricks don't necessarily fit into any one existing Mm-hmm. And I f- I always felt that was the intent with feats when it was introduced in third edition D&D, of little tricks to personalize. somewhere along the l- line, the memo got lost or was put into forms I don't think it was designed for. You know, the whole feat chain problem or the feat tax problem as has been discussed plenty of spaces elsewhere. Um Yeah And to, and to that end, I don't really have a extensive amount of [00:20:00] prerequisites when it comes to feats. of times it's ju- it's just on three feat chains. Usually those ones have some kind of Roman numeral attachment I think a lot of what we're kind of talking about too, back to sort of the d- overall design of things, is that for almost every game out there, there's like ... I don't know if it's just the advent of the internet or now that, you know, all of us who grew up playing games are now adults and we kind of get games more, but there ends up being like the meta builds, right? And so you talk about like D&D and Mm-hmm. there's like this huge problem of like you can't play a rogue anymore in D&D 5.5E 'cause it's just terrible compared to the damage output of so many other classes. Oh, And a lot of people- on rangers. Yeah. Right. Right. And then a lot of people play as if combat or damage per turn or whatever is like the key factor, and if you aren't pumping out damage, then you aren't having [00:21:00] fun, right? But I, I think it's interesting that you've taken this approach with feats where it's like it's about things that you can do for your character. It's about the, the role play and the character building more than just the optimization. But I also think that just the sheer s- way that you've made this game makes it really hard to create any kind of like meta build. Like, maybe if, you know, a hundred thousand people were playing this game every week, there would start to be some patterns emerge, but it seems to me as if you've gone to really great lengths to give every class its own personality, Mm-hmm. I think that y- people would have a very hard time finding anything that's gonna be like super busted basically. It's more about having the fun playing the character you wanna play instead of optimizing every little thing. Yeah. Now, there's a, there's a couple things I can say on that. One,[00:22:00] Sure I will be flat out honest, whether it be in tabletop games, in video games, in war games, in board games, in card games, any kind of game period, loathe meta Me too. Because Me too I am, and I s- I have done my fair share of t- of tournaments, whether it be in, um, card, whether it be in card games. I w- I, I'm not great at it , but I did dabble in tournament scenes in, um, fighting games growing up. Cool I certainly don't do it as, as much these days, but I... But something I did. the reason I hate meta so much is I'm, I grew, I grew up ar- I grew up around a lot of, a lot of freestyle artistry. You know, whether it be Hmm import, the, um, the whole import tuner craze of the early [00:23:00] 2000s, the go- or listening to, listening to early hip hop in the golden age of sampling, j- or just remix culture with, um, music. Or j- or just the idea of freestyling when it came to building, um, stuff with Lego as a little kid. That's awesome. Yeah that idea of expression of building the style that, that fits y- that fits you, not necessarily is the best numbers. And Yeah what really helped hammer this home for me was when I was spending a bit of time revisiting, um, various shooters. And especially re- especially, um, getting an understanding for what the intent of the perk system in, say, early Call of Duty was Mm-hmm Because if you look at the perk list in say Modern Warfare or Mo- or Modern Warfare [00:24:00] 2 or Black Ops or whatnot, it's not about raw numbers. It is about, it is about picking ones that best fit a certain play style that you're trying to go for. Yeah Uh, like for example, somebody who picks scavenger probably gonna be using a light machine gun, because scavenger lets you get more ammo on ammo pickups so that, so you have more bull- you have more bullet per bullet. And if you're using an LMG, you're gonna be eating through that ammo pretty fast Oh. It's not really, it's not really about the numbers per se. And I've s- a similar thing to an extent with some of the unlocks in games like Team Fortress 2, where not picking them for numbers or percentages, you're picking them for a certain style. Uh, like a common build when I would play Pyro in was [00:25:00] having things like the flare gun and the Axtinguisher. The flare gun is a secondary, lets you set people on fire at range. It's just on an arc so it is a little bit tricky to use. And the Axtinguisher auto- always does critical hits if you're hitting somebody while they're on fire. So you can see how they feed into each other. And there were certain combinations that we saw where we thought this could be a particular annoyance or this could be a particular pest in combat, but it was funny so we kept it. one of the early examples of that that we've brought up and that we've brought up plenty of times over the years is somebody doing Arcanist and Fencer. Because Arcanist is all about incubating a curse within themself and then transferring that curse as a debuff to the next person who hits them. Fencer is all about taunting an enemy to force th- to force them in a duel where both sides get bonuses to hitting each other and penalties to [00:26:00] hitting anybody else There's good synergies for sure Mm-hmm. when it comes to the... There's been no end of arguments about game balance. seen, I've seen it talked Sure f- back and forth. I've seen people talk about balancing issues with this game back and forth. A Yeah me to, a lot of the balance arguments puts me to sleep for the same reason the, um, math breakdowns of classes back when I would follow the brilliant GameZologist forums put me to sleep. Even if I did rip off the whole Godzilla thing as a this is what I don't want. But The, but the, To bo- to dial myself back a bit, um We take an, we take a policy called Brawl Minus when it comes to game balance. The attitude being if everyone's potentially broken on all sides of the fence, no one is. So for a bit of context, Brawl [00:27:00] Minus was a response mod, some say a meme mod, to a mod for Smash Brothers Brawl called Brawl Plus. The intent with Brawl Plus was to nerf a lot of the overpowered elements in Brawl. Um, Meta Knight, I'm looking right at you. know what you did. Brawl Minus took the opposite approach of instead of nerfing the overpowered stuff, just make everybody ridiculously overpowered That sounds like a lot of fun Like, like a fully charged warlock punch from Ganondorf in Bro- in Brawl Minus could be a one-hit, um, knockout. And as ridiculous as that is, still the signposting and still the tells that can be punished if someone knows what they're doing. So as, as overpowered as everything is, there is still an internal logic of if you got hit by something like that, you were ignoring the very obvious tells and that, and [00:28:00] you're getting punished for that. Mm-hmm. you know, in the s- in the same way that I remember when I would, when I would play a lot of Halo 2, and a lot of people hated the glitch, um, BXR. And I had defended it because I, because at the time I had said the timing window for it is very specific, and if you don't get it right, you are going to get punished you just left yourself wide open and you can't hit back Yeah. Things that are strong come with a downside or they're projected so it's defendable against it Mm-hmm. And there is the concept in game design called signposting, where this is where you have those very obvious tells about what you should stay away from or what you should be wary about 'cause something's gonna come. Uh, and when you have the, when you have th- when you have that particular signpost and then you [00:29:00] ignore it, then it becomes your own fault, and you gotta deal with the consequences of that. Uh, think of any video game RPG where you've seen where the, where the game is telling you the enemy's preparing for a large attack, then you don't shore up your defenses and you get wiped Oh, it's the, it's the same principle. And I never want... I, be- I remember being so annoyed when I would see certain game developers take combinations that the community had discovered on their own that were, that added to the fun factor of creatively overcoming obstacles and take that away from them. Uh Yeah, it's kind of a lame approach for sure It's not only a lame approach, but I feel like it sends the wrong message. To me, it sends the message of don't bother getting better at the game because we're just gonna take away your tools. Yeah. Don't be creative yeah, [00:30:00] a big example of this would be Mercy hopping exploit that was found early on in Overwatch, where people figured out that with the right timing using Mercy's movement mechanics, they could clear a lot of ground very quickly. About less than a week after that was discovered, it got patched out Sure. Yeah, I, I, uh, it's a tough thing as a game designer too, because I do also feel you have a vision Mm-hmm. how you want the game to be played, and there are just some things where you didn't imagine it being used in a certain way, and it wasn't intended. And if it does become the situation where it's like, now that we know this exists, Mm-hmm. who does wanna play for the optimal meta build now must do this. Yeah That can take away from the fun as well, but I, I think it depends on, like, your priorities as a game designer. Like, is it is it around the fun? Is it around the [00:31:00] creativity? Is it around your original vision? And y- I often find you have to balance all of those things actually, so th- there have been some times where I've taken away toys from other people as well. Um, but yeah Legend Edition, because it's built around being, being a sandbox, having whatever my specific vision is, is not as important. The only time that I've really modified something so that it ta- so to take away certain tools that I f- I felt were, um, stepping over the line is if, is if I felt it was undermining other things. Um, the, the, um, benchmark that I use for this sort of thing is I don't want a knock spell. Um, I was never a big fan of spells like knock or teleport Hmm or oth- other games. I wasn't a fan of knock because I f- because I [00:32:00] felt it completely undermined the presence of having a rogue in the party. Like, Yeah, sure. why have Right all the time rolling to pick a, to pick a lock when you, when the wizard can cast knock and the lock is no longer a problem? Have the wizard be a rogue, yeah And I didn't like spells like teleport 'cause that, 'cause I felt that r- that took away from the narrative control of the Sure GM. Um, especially if you can tel- especially if you can just teleport right to where the dungeon is instead of having to Sure. thing of fi- of trying to find out where it is. Yeah and in the same vein, I also wanted to avoid things like CODZilla. Uh, CODZilla is something that came out of the tier sys- the tier system of effectiveness that the Brilliant Gamesologist forums, um, devised, where somebody re- the COD is short for cleric or druid, and it was a reflection Okay that somebody who [00:33:00] knows what they're doing with either of those classes is an entire party by themself. Yeah and to that end, when it came to designing the jobs, something that I tried to avoid was the idea of a single job being multi-role. Um, Yeah. I was impressed by that really quick as well. You know, when I was reading through the first time, and I mean, every time I go into it, Mm-hmm. it is very crystal clear what each class does. Mm-hmm. it, it, it's so focused that if it was only one... You could only play one class at a time, it may feel a little narrow, but I actually love that because you're mixing. Mm-hmm. think you, you really lasered in on what each job does and what they're about Yeah. Like for, for example, um, I had, I had gotten a bit of pushback over the fact that with the paladin, unlike s- [00:34:00] unlike plenty of the games, I did not give the paladin access to white magic. Um, part of that was had to answer the question, well, what do, what do you do if you have a paladin and white mage as part of your job trio? now Sure. things that would overlap. You're both... Yeah two, I felt pal- I felt the identity of paladin more centered around covering allies and taking the hits for them rather than white magic. Plus, I've never been a fan of, um, of half casters Interesting. Yeah. 'Cause they end up doing both things poorly in most games. Yes. Yeah. Oh Yeah, they're like half people basically. Yeah, the, the big pr- the big problem with, the big problem with it is doing that s- doing that sort of multi-role is gonna run into conflict when y- when class systems in general are about [00:35:00] specialization. Having a generalist in a b- in a game built around specializations has an inherent contradiction. feel like this is Sure why in D&D, um, the ranger has been cursed since the days of AD&D. Yeah, th- there's no identity there. I mean, I, there's no identity, and I, I think that's probably another big thing, right? Like, they, they don't know what they want ranger to be. You're just like a ranged fighter, but then you're not. But the things that you can do, anybody can do. It's not really that interesting. Yeah, I had... The funny thing is the one edition that I'm supposed to hate but I don't because the check bounced actually solved that issue Um, the fourth edition ranger, I don't have that problem with Oh yeah, I actually like fourth edition. Mm-hmm. It's kind of a bum that nobody else did I, I've, I've been a fan of fourth edition since it started out in 2008, and I have routinely taken the piss out of people [00:36:00] who go with that MMO argument, and I basically tell them, have no idea how MMOs actually work if that's your, um, main ar- if that's your main argument." Um, and Especially s-since, um When it comes to, when it comes to the po- when it comes to the power setup, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that, that so many of us had reference index cards And nowadays you can get whole spell decks for casters Sure But I r- but the Ranger in fourth was one of the premier, one of the premier examples of the striker. real problem that it had was one infamous daily power that got, um, errated out that led to the meme of Kenshiro Orcaslayer, because if you hit, you could keep hitting until you missed. Oh. Um It's like [00:37:00] Thunderfury weapon or whatever it's called in WoW. Mm-hmm. The first- Yeah Yeah, and Orcus was one of the big high-level monsters in the, in Wind theory. Manual. Got it somebody who had the l- had the luck of the dice gods on their side could ju- Yep. keep Just one shot it. Yeah. he runs out. So Yep the And becau- because of that I w- I wanted... Now, with a lot of games, they can have multi-role effects with their classes because you're only picking that one class for the most part. Here, the multi-roleness comes from the combination of your class and jobs, also Yeah the fact that there's plenty of characters throughout Final Fantasy that don't quite fit one particular job exclusively Also because jobs changed between iterations. So, I mean, your solution makes a world of sense Yeah, like the, the knight in the original [00:38:00] Final Yeah. Right ultimately a proto-paladin. Right. Yeah. When you mentioned cover, that was the first thing I thought of Yeah, I th- I think the, when people think of the paladin in the classic sense, the first version they're gonna think of is Cecil in IV. Um, and in that s- in, in that same vein, there were s- there were some casting lists that were easy to design for. The hardest one was Blue Magic because, um, Blue Magic goes literally all over the place in every iteration, and when I That's like the point of it, yeah. Yeah a specific thing was important Right Ah. And I will, I will note that, um, with the ones that I took liberties with, those ones still that rule of I need to answer what exa- what exactly its [00:39:00] big, for lack of a better term, gimmick is. Um, now some got r- some were under other names but got renamed because of things I wanted to avoid. Dynamo was Gunner originally, um, meant to be a bit of a nod to the g- to the Gunner dressphere in X-2. Um, Mm-hmm. that and I said I wanted a John Woo-like, um, job. But of the fact that the job system is divorced from required weapons, which was something I wanted to do from the word go, um, I felt that calling it Gunner or calling the sniper, it was originally Archer, would Hmm Yeah from that So I went with names that were a little bit broader in that sense. and the other reason One of the things I'm obviously the most proud of is the weapon system and the fact that it is divorced from your choice [00:40:00] of job. So you could play a bl- you could have Black Mage as part of your combo and use a long sword, um, and still make it work because in addition to that whole not m- not fitting thing, there's If I were to do a standard weapon list that you see in a lot of fantasy games, there are so many weapons within Final Fantasy that don't fit that Yeah. Yeah, there's so many, yeah. Um, whether it the pinwheel for Noah, yeah yeah, the weird pinwheel thing that Rinoa has, Yeah um the, over- the oversized, um, shurikens that Yuffie has, the fact that hair accessories are the weapon of choice for Red XIII. Um, the Plus the, plus, um, I'd, I would, I'd think of certain unorthodox weapons that I would always pick in [00:41:00] other fantasy games. like I was I think I was m- I think once I was, um, like I was playing a character in an Eberron campaign that involved the desert elves, which are an interesting beast in and of themselves. I said, "You know what? It would fit that, it would fit that my character uses a khopesh instead of a long sword." Um- And isn't anything in the rule set for a khopesh, obviously, so we had to make that up Yeah And I've also mentioned that no matter what, there's gonna be some that has some weapon that ha- that has the same cool factor as when people first saw the Buster Sword back in 1997. Mmhmm instead of telling them, "Just house rule it," which is like pushing them off the deep end and saying, "Swim, damn it." Uh, I w- I wanted to, I wanted to provide a framework where people could make those unorthodox weapons[00:42:00] That's awesome instead, instead of just being Sisyphus having to constantly make new and bigger weapon lists. Uh, and again, for example, I, I know that the... There's the, um, common motif of the monk uses unarmed weapons, except when it doesn't. But I remember in the past pitching, "Okay, instead of, instead of using unarm- instead of using just bare hands, um, why, why not use a... why not use something like, say, a rope dart or a, um, sansetsukon?" Uh, a sansetsukon is a three-section staff Hmm. Okay. Yeah And obviously a rope dart is, well, exactly what you think it is. And I have, I have plenty of players who are firearm enthusiasts, much like me, and I know that they would come up with some unorthodox suggestions, [00:43:00] and I'm like, "Go, go right ahead with it." Um, I know one It's awesome who, who was playing this giant character, he said, "I wanna lug, I wanna lug around a m- a slightly miniaturized version of a punt gun." I'm like, "I'll let you do it, but, but you're... But, um, you can only fire it every other round because it's a punt gun. Those things weren't meant to be carried." Like, for context, a punt gun was a type of ridiculously oversized shotgun for m- for commercial duck hunting that was supposed to be mounted on a small boat, a punt They eventually Yeah, players won't do that good at their job Players will do that. They'll try to do the things that they shouldn't be doing. And, We-- I was gonna say we, we have a little bit of time left. I don't mean to cut you off on that thought, but, uh, once you finish that thought, I would love to go through some more of the classes and like just the, the most broken or [00:44:00] insane or fun stuff that people have come up with so far Um, I will note that from a design perspective, I like giving players powerful but unsafe equipment. benchmark for that kind of thing is if you remember the Noisy Cricket from Men in Black, that, Oh yeah, that was... I love that. Yeah. Oh. You know, That's awesome a hell of a lot of damage, but every time you fire the thing, you get sent flying Mm-hmm. Yeah. Why not? oh, this As far as cl- as far as some of the individual class, some of the individual classes and jobs, as far as some of the ideas, um, I remember being really proud of the way, um, fighter turned out. So a lot of times the fighter has the selling point of, "Oh, you can equip any weapon." But most people are gonna pick one way they equip their character and stick to it Yeah And I, I built [00:45:00] the fighter based on Firion's appearance in the Dissidia games, he's carrying around 10 different types of weapons That's awesome using all, and using all of them in his combos. So like, all right, the fight- the fighter is the walking arsenal. The weapon master is the opposite end. Um- Ah There was also the f- there's also, um, I think there's, there's some jobs that I think got slept on, that get slept on by people. Um, one of them that especially comes to mind is the Spiritmaster. Um, Spiritmaster is a def- is a defensive favoring support, um, But their Spiritism ability is, for those, those of, those who have used it properly, um, have caused a lot of salt because it doesn't remove debuffs, it moves them. It moves buffs as well from any Nice to another participant[00:46:00] That's awesome So it's a really great way to screw over the, B-beg that just put a bunch of buffs on th- that just put a few buffs on themselves. You know, you can have the B-beg go, "I'm, I'm conflicting, I'm inflicting paralyze on one of your a- on one of your allies," and somebody who's got Spirit Master can say, no you don't, and congratulations, now you're paralyzed." Sure. Yeah, it's really incredible Mm-hmm. Uh, and the l- something I tried to av- I tried to avoid was giving h- was giving whole new s- there's plenty of, there's plenty of, um, charac- there's plenty of characters and builds that have some sort of sub mechanic, like some sort of resource or the like, which Mmhmm reason I avoided doing the whole limit gauge thing because that'd be one more thing to track. Uh, but I wanted [00:47:00] to avo- I wanted to avoid, um, a setup that might pigeonhole a particular build or a particular, um, job. Um, like for, for example, somebody wants to just slightly dip into magic, you have multiple ways to do it. You could do it through a spell casting enhantment- enhancement from a magic weapon. could do it by get- by getting scrolls and be- because of the way consumables work, you are gonna be able to use that spell for the rest of the in- for the rest of the in- of, um, that adventure until you hit downtime again. But you do have access to it. just... And that can pair very well with something like ma- with something like Magic Knight, which has more in common with the Magus class in Pathfinder than a lot Hmm the traditional ma- a lot of the traditional Magic Knight approaches. Uh, and [00:48:00] it wasn't long before, it wasn't long before that came up that the idea of a caster build out of Outlaw Star came to be. Um, there's... I've s- I have seen pe- I've seen people, um- Go com- go completely s- go completely support based using c- using a combination of general and, um, and squire. So that they, Yeah able to do a lot of attacks, but if they're patient, they're let, they're gonna let their, um, party do a lot of attacks, especially with things like blade work. Um really liked the looks of Squire. I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it, in fact. Squire was a hard one to write for because I bet it was couldn't use a lot of the t- I couldn't use the techniques as is for Squire in tactics because it's meant to be your starter. Um, and instead I built it around the idea that it is this, this ultimate [00:49:00] pocket pick. And think... I will note that th- that, um, a lot of the design with the classes and jobs starts to click if you look at them like you would look at positions on a team sport Yeah, I agree with that Because any team sport, whether it be hockey, whether it be, whether it be rugby, whether it be football or other football, you don't really have a jack-of-all-trades position You have several multi-role positions and usually a, a secondary role as a backup for when the play breaks down, and it will. But you don't have somebody who's supposed to be good at everything Oh. And that was, that was how, that was that was a design, uh, goal that I, that I had. Um, I think you hit that. and- Yeah, it, it's fun too. I'll just interject really quick because I think a lot of modern game design is [00:50:00] about being able to do everything, and every class starts to feel the exact same. Mm-hmm. Um, I've even, you know, played a lot of different games out there that are classless and messed around with them myself with my own design in the past, and I find that people tend to gravitate towards the same things. They're like, "I wanna be able to fly and have invisibility and invincibility." And I actually like it a lot more when you're like, "Look, this is what I do, and then everything else I suck at," because it gives specific spotlights for everybody in the party to be able to jump in and do their thing. You're not always good, and that's part of, I think, the fun Mm-hmm. Ah. And for, for me, I wa- I always saw the high skill floor when it came to people really being able to explore the [00:51:00] potential customizations with s- with job design, and also Yeah of that, that sameyness in some of the more freeform ones. And Yeah. Yeah. games, pe- the selling point that people give me is, "Oh, you can build just about anything." The problem is a Not really. And Yeah. one th- And, And, meta builds. to mind yeah. to go for it especially with, um, false choice as I call it, is Shadowrun agree with it. Yeah, yeah, the idea of false choice is a big one, and I think people who aren't game designers often overlook that. But there's a lot of things out there, it's like, "Oh, you have 1,000 choices," but really it's like, yeah, but do you... Like, do you really? No. It's usually only a few things that are, like, the best. And oftentimes too, if you take something, it's either actively bad or it's so much worse than something else that you actually can't choose it, so it's, it's not a real choice [00:52:00] And I think of, um, I think of Sha- I think of Shadowrun where it ends up having a class system while trying to pretend it doesn't Sure. Sure, sure. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, so I un- I understand exactly what you're saying. Mm-hmm. And on, on the other Yeah um, you know, some g- some designers try to build these traps for some reason. Um Yeah To tr- to try and encourage system mastery. But the pro- I've always ha- I've always had an issue when games have the, try to have this hard divide between the people just learning the system and the people who've been at it for years, with not an Yeah pathway from one to the other I agree And whenever I've talked about that, s- some have con- have equate- have equated that to wanting ha- wanting the handheld, [00:53:00] and that's not the case. it's more, it's more about establishing where, where the li- where the lines are. Um, Mm-hmm. and I feel like what I've tried to do with Legend Edition is those lines end up being created organically because instead, instead of looking at character creation of, in the sense of, "Oh, we, we need a bl- we need a black mage for the party, so who's g- who's gonna be that?" It's more about I have a character concept in mind, and I'm using the tool set to try and get as close to that concept as I can It's awesome Uh, and there's nothing wrong with the idea of, oh, you're building a c- you're building a character class first and then going around it. That's how early D&D works, in a sense. Sure it's not something I think is compatible with f- with, um, Final Fantasy as s- as the series progressed[00:54:00] Yeah Because there are plenty of characters, even in games that are explicitly class-leaning, like say, IX, where they end up fit- they end up fitting the niche of multiple jobs instead of just one. Uh, at, say, um, Amarant in Final Fantasy IX I was thinking of him as well He's basically a hybrid between monk and ninja. Or in Final Fantasy X, look at the territory of, um, say Tidus on the, um, lic- on, not on the license grid, in the, um, sphere grid. Mmhmm a lot of it leans into time mage and squire-like effects. Uh And you have that, you have that sort of asterisk where in a lot of class-based games you're picking this one thing and that's it. But a lot of Final Fantasy characters, [00:55:00] you can't really fit them into that one thing And that's not even getting into the idea that some people might wanna go off the beaten path Right? For sure So with wrapping up, I have a couple more things to cover. Um, one class, for example, that I really wanna play some point coming up for a very specific reason is the Oracle, and that reason is because I can self and-- self-damage myself to get myself to a limit break faster. Are there other classes that, that use self-damage for a bonus of some kind so that, you know, somebody wants to, like, limit break as often as possible? So Lim- because limit break is a bu- is a buff, um, and the f- and the fact that between, that you do full heal between encounters, um, trying to, trying to race to limit [00:56:00] break all the time isn't as beneficial as it may sound. Um, I just wanted to try it at least one time And any sort of... There are some ef- there are some effects that, aside from Oracle, that let you do that kind of, um, that kind of risk thing. Um, obviously one of the big examples is gonna be Dark Knight, who Okay when they're using Soul Eater, they can add a die of any size, aside from D20, their d- to their damage. However, whatever that additional die rolled, they ta- they take in direct HP reduction Yeah, I love it Oh In the s- in the same... There's a similar thing that works for, um, paladin when it comes to cover. Or not when it Right when it comes to paladin's oath. They can add that Oh, okay to their defenses, but the next t- but the next time they're targeted with an attack and that [00:57:00] attack is a miss, whatever that bonus they got from that die was, they take in, um, reduction Which I felt the theme of sacrifice that's a, that is key to the paladin identity I think so too. I also like that it's a foil, in a sense, for Dark Knight. There's a lot of threads in these classes that are really fun to pull at when you start getting into it. I can tell a lot of heart and passion has gone into making this. Mm-hmm. So I guess the next question with that, this is probably my last question, or it's like a little series of questions. But have you thought... Because Final Fantasy, like when we played, the story was great, and the adventure was super fun, and everything that you made I really loved. Also, though, Final Fantasy is like often thought of as a very combat-heavy series. Have you thought about [00:58:00] doing some kind of like PVP tournament where it's just like build your biggest, baddest team and fight against people online? And, you know, you've, you have, you have like a tournament series that's, you know, like you schedule once a week to you and your party fight somebody else. Or having that kind of thing, but then like for bosses, where it's like you and your friends build a team, you know, once a week you fight against some mega boss. You're not really intended to win, but, you know, it can be like a little bit of a competition thing for the community sort of thing. Just curious if you thought about these kind of things. I have given them some thought, and the idea of, of, um, PVP I, I would not advise because it really is built with the idea of the party has its own particular set of mechanics and the NPCs and their, Got it have their own particular set of mechanics opposite them. It's... I've, I [00:59:00] remember, I remember going through a bunch of, a bunch of games in the mid-2000s that ha- that did the whole PCs and NPCs are built the same way, and I, I don't wanna do that, um, Sure, sure becau- because it... I feel like it would fall back into that same n- into that sameness that we talked about earlier. Mm-hmm. Mmhmm on the other hand, the i- the idea of competitively going up, going up against a certain boss, um, that I'd be a, that'd be a little bit more willing to go with. Um, it would certainly, it would certainly fit alongside some of the um, style video games that we, that we've seen over the last few years, stuff like, um, stuff like Dead by Daylight or the Friday the 13th game, for example. Or even the battle mode, uh, multiplayer entry that was in Doom Eternal. [01:00:00] Uh This i- this idea of asynchronous play. And the approach that I'd probably do is not a, "Oh, this is a, this is a, um, this is a near impossible bo- because I don't wanna revisit the trauma that people have had to deal with with certain hidden bosses in RPGs, Sure. every Tri-Ace game I've ever played. Or the, um... Are you familiar with, are you familiar with the infamy that was Absolute Virtue in Final Fantasy XI? No. No, I'm not familiar on record as one of the mo- as one of the hardest raid bosses of all time. Uh, like, it, it's just a long, long slog. Got it. I mean, that's no fun either. Yeah of course when people figured out how to beat, how to do exploits to beat it, they're like, "All right, we're gonna make him even harder." Got it. I have a special level of [01:01:00] hatred towards, Ozma as a hidden boss, mostly because he cheats. that's not Yep that's not me exaggerating. There's parts in his AI where you can completely jump his, um, ATB gauge depending I see. which is Yeah, I'm not surprised. why I Yeah the same way AI in, um, some RTS campaigns cheat Sure In, mostly in the they have unlimited resources and you don't kind of way Yeah, that's a pretty big cheat Oh. But what I'd prob- what I'd probably end up d- what I'd probably end up doing is some sort of, some sort of raid boss like enc- like encounter where beat, where, um, it's not just be- it's not just about beating the opponent, but also beating the opponent, surviving, and d- doing certain additional challenges Yeah[01:02:00] There's, I like there lot. Um, Yeah obvious- so think, think less of a raid boss in WoW and think more of, um, say a mission in Monster Hunter Yep, I'm tracking Oh. And 'cause I f- 'cause I f- I feel like doing a, doing a PVP thing is something that doesn't... It, it's certainly there in PVP. It has been in FF XI and XIV. But I feel like getting the coliseum part of the identity, you know, the coliseum mini-game that's been in multiple games, uh, the way to go about that would be to would be, would be to do something beyond just PVP, whether it be escalating monster types or, um, something that I just came up on the fly, a wager [01:03:00] system like you see in some ARPGs, where you can intentionally nerf yourself to potentially get better loot Yeah, yeah. It just comes to mind, I, and I think maybe you're totally right about this too, I mean, PVP can kinda be a feel bad thing sometimes as well. Mm-hmm. Whereas if you are even loosely competing against somebody, or maybe not even competing, but just, you know, competing against yourself to try and do X, Y, Z thing, fighting, like, a boss. I personally like competition a little bit, so maybe that could be fun. But, um, yeah, I hope you try something like that, 'cause I would, I would be in for it. I could get, I could get three other guys together, to be and we would, you yeah. see me build a s- build a separate, um, say c- say card game or s- or skirmish war Sure lean in- to lean into that instead Sure, sure Um, 'cause I feel like that would be- that would better f- fit that since [01:04:00] obviously I, even in those ca- even in, um, something like that, I still don't wanna have to deal with meta. I, Sure if you, I want, I would want to, um, I would wanna have it le- less akin to the flag or team deathmatch, and more akin to, like, big team battle in H- in Halo, for example. Sure a way, a way to experiment with the sa- with the sandb- with given sandbox, but not necessarily building it arou- around one, around one particular meta. Yeah. as I get it as- a bit of an aside, there wa- there was a incident at a, um, Yu-Gi-Oh tournament years ago where somebody in with a random ass deck and completely embarrassed everybody, and it was his first tournament. Because Oh, that's awesome. for, they were all planning for this very, very specific meta at that [01:05:00] tournament, and he wasn't playing that, so they ha- so they were basically coming in completely blind and had , and had no I love that no strategy at first to prepare for, and only got one as they adapted ov- over the, over subsequent rounds. Mm-hmm Um, it's ... Imagine, imagine a football coach spending hours watching film, only to realize he's watching film for the wrong team he's playing against Yeah, totally Oh. And I've I think that kind of thing's hilarious. I love that. yeah, I've always appreciated, um, I've always appreciated people pulling dumb stuff in games I agree. Yeah, I think it's part of the creativity and the fun and that, that's what we're talking about, right? Like, that's-- it's a role-playing game, so you can role play a character you want, not to optimize. But, Yeah um, yeah, I th- I guess we should probably wrap up here, Mm-hmm.[01:06:00] but I feel like we'll have more conversations coming up in the future. Is there anything else you want to wrap up with? Um, Or final things you wanna say, I, I should say? I will note that while it is gonna be a slow process, I am in the early stages of writing world books for Legend Edition. Cool. Um, Good to know been working on a, in a, um, not necessarily a default campaign setting, but a potential campaign setting, um, that I've codenamed Project Gaia. Um, which is do- is doing th- is doing a bit of, um, of steam pu- of steampunk with magic. It was my answer to the question of the magic versus technology motif that's often in steampunk and other speculative fiction. The answer I give is and technology are two sides of the same whole and feed into each other So, Well, that's great. mm-hmm Yeah, I'm [01:07:00] looking forward to that Oh yeah And, Well, thank you so much for coming on today then, Mildreth. It's always a pleasure. Oh, yeah I hope everybody, if you haven't tried out Legends Edition yet, you really need to. Um, I'll make sure to include a link. It is a free download for anybody who's been listening in and, you know, doesn't know anything about the project yet. Uh, it's a great game. I think you should take a look, find what class and jobs you wanna try, and, uh, yeah, let us know what you're having the most fun with with your group Mm-hmm. Oh otherwise, we will catch everybody later then Stay frosty Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's funny you said w- um, 45 minutes. We ended up going an hour and seven. Uh
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